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Re:Blue pipes, Carb jetting (1 viewing) (1) Guest
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TOPIC: Re:Blue pipes, Carb jetting
#1204
mwebster2 (User)
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Blue pipes, Carb jetting 4 Years ago  
I just bought a 2002 Roadstar with 1000 miles on it (my first big cruiser). The bike has a set of Vance & Hines Clsssic pipes (baffles in but they look minimally restrictive). According to original owner, he had the pipes and a Dynojet kit installed at the dealer when brand new.

The pipes have turned blue (appears that all of the pipes underneath, as well as the first 10 or so inches of the heat shield). The shield is only slightly blued but the pipes are very blue. My dealer/mechanic said bluing pipes were a sign of running lean causing excess heat, and that running richer would cool it off. One other thing to note, at the end of the pipes, there is a lot of black carbon build-up.

I talked with the Dynojet tech yesterday, and he said first off, they do not base anything/recommendations on pipe bluing. He asked how it was running per their troubleshooting guide, and it seems fine to me (no backfiring or coughing, etc.) I have not removed the carb to check the main jet (although I believe the DJ165 is installed per Dynajet instruction and the left-over bag) or the needle setting. I did check the PMS and it was at 3.25 turns out; I moved it to the recommended 3.5 turns out. I also tried changing the airflow by taping over 1/3rd of the air filter and removing the air filter to see if either improved performance per the tech. It did seem to pull better with the filter partially covered, apparently indicating it needs to be set up richer. But it seemed to also run fine with the filter removed. One other note, the AIS was not plugged off by the kit installing deler per the Dynojet instructions.

The original owner said all the bikes he has seen has this bluing on the pipes so he thought it was normal. I don't want to further ruin my pipes or cause other motor problems with excess heat.

After reading through the tips and forum posts here (they are great) my tentative plans are to 1) plug the AIS per the kit instructions and someday remove it, 2) Install the Dynajet 170 jet to richen it since it seemed to pull harder when richer, 3) Move the needle clip to groove #4 also to richen it.

Sorry for the long post but wanted to get all the details out I could think of. Is this bluing normal? Any suggestions on what I should do? By the way, I love this bike. Why didn't I buy one earlier???
 
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#1205
Gram (Admin)
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Re:Blue pipes, Carb jetting 4 Years ago  
Almost every set of Vance and Hines pipes I have seen are blueing at the connection of the collectors (baffle section) and the header pipes. A set I used to have did the same thing.

The pipes underneath will blue, and that is absolutely normal. Hence the need for decorative heat shields.

Pay attention to the way your bike runs. Jetting richer can cause other problems and is not always the right answer. Rich jetting can cause the pipes to yellow btw. And unless you are running too lean, jetting to be richer can actually slow the bike down by providing too much fuel and not enough air for ideal combustion.

Also, check your mileage. You should be getting somewhere around 40 to 45 mpg. Although lots of folks often get better, if you are in this range you are close to ideal (this would be an average of jetting across the rpm range you drive in).

The stock carb has three circuits, any one of which can be lean while the others can be too rich. The Road Stars air cooled motor has to operate across a very wide range of temps compared to water cooled bikes, and this can contribute to the problem. The net of all this is that getting the carb balanced out for best operation is typically a balancing act of compromise between the three circuits of the carb. For whatever its worth, getting your bike to run well without carbon residue in the tailpipe is nearly impossible. In fact I have never been able to do it. The temerature range is too wide, and if at its richest it is not carboning up the pipe, it will be too lean at its leanest.

You might want to start with a WOT test to see how your main is doing, then proceed to balance out the pms per instructions found in several articles here on the clinic. Alternatively, Bulldog's article on carb tuning recommends starting with the PMS first, then working to balance out the needle circuit.

The bluing of the pipe can be handled (its a bit of work) with a product called BlueJob. You can find it at most good cruiser accessory shops. Its a chrome polish designed to address this specifically. You will need to use it from time to time to keep it the way you like it.

If you would like some input on jetting recommendations from some of the folks around here, let us know these things:

Your elevation where you ride the most (range is ok too)
What air kit
Manifold stock or ported
baffles in or out
AIS (on - but put it in the same post so folks don't have to hunt)
Any carb settings that you know of
Average Mileage (if you know it)

It helps to get it all in one post. Folks with similiar accessories will tend to chime in and let you know how thier bikes are setup, as well as issues or problems they might have had.

Welcom to the clinic MW!

-GRAM
 
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#1207
daglassguy (User)
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Re:Blue pipes, Carb jetting 4 Years ago  
You can also go to baronscustom.com and look thru their forum. I go there on a regular basis to read questions and answers. There is a lot of useful information there. Also you can actually call them with tech questions and they will help you if they can. Gram told us something I have been trying to find out for a while in his post. Ive been trying to get mine to run without carbon on pipes and just couldnt get it dialed in the way I wanted. Now I know that the carbon in pipe is ok and I can quit fretting about it. Thanks Frank
 
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#1217
mwebster2 (User)
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Re:Blue pipes, Carb jetting 4 Years ago  
Thanks for the responses!

I can understand the pipes blueing, but have had several comments about the heat shield blueing (within 10 inches of the motor) and that it seems to be a problem.


Your elevation where you ride the most (range is ok too): Houston/100'
What air kit: stock
Manifold stock or ported: stock
baffles in or out: in I believe but they look fairly unrestrictive (V&H Classics)
AIS: On for now but planning to plug/remove
Any carb settings that you know of: PMS 3.5 turns
Average Mileage (if you know it): ~38


I will hopefully be able to spend some more time troubleshooting it with the resources mentioned and will let you know. Again, thanks for the responses.

12/27 edit: Have been able to run a few tanks through it, averaging about 38mpg. Also I cleaned the heat sheilds with Bluejob -- the blue came off only a little pitting/darker discoloration remaining. Odd thing is now is that the heat sheild within 10 inches of the motor are yellowing slightly not blueing. Maybe the sheids blued up with the previous owner and then he adjusted the carb PMS too rich... I will try the WOT as soon as I can. Thanks again for the help.<br><br>Post edited by: mwebster2, at: 2004/12/28 00:44
 
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#1221
Zo (User)
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Re:Blue pipes, Carb jetting 4 Years ago  
mwebster2 wrote:
Your elevation where you ride the most (range is ok too): Houston/100'


What part of Houston are you in? I'm up in Spring.
 
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