I'm running a 182.5 main in my 07 and it's not to much fuel. I just had it dynoed and the main was just fine. The size of the main comes into play at WOT and it don't matter what needle is in it. It is out of the main at WOT. An aftermarket needle comes mostly into play in the cruising range and needs to be adjusted to obtain the correct AFR's. I'm running a BAK, ported manifold, and speedstar long drag pipes. I am at 600 ft elevation with a 182.5 main #45 pilot PMS 3 1/4 turns and speedstar needle on clip 4. It dynoed at 68.15hp and 98.74 tq. and my AFR's were good in all ranges. Nothing running rich.
When you see the jetting that some are running they may have a 1600 not a 1700. The 1600's are jetted smaller. Also there are many ways to jet. You can get your bike to run good with the leaner jets in the idle and cruising ranges. And you can get to the proper AFR's thru needle adjustment and pms adjustments at idle and cruising range. But IMHO you won't get the HP/Tq that you are capable of getting if your lean on the main. Your bike could drink all the fuel from a 182.5 when it was built and it still can. Also the only way to ever know if your jetting is correct is to put it on a Dyno and see the results. Don't guess.

davej wrote:
I'm running a 182.5 main in my 07 and it's not to much fuel. I just had it dynoed and the main was just fine. The size of the main comes into play at WOT and it don't matter what needle is in it. It is out of the main at WOT. An aftermarket needle comes mostly into play in the cruising range and needs to be adjusted to obtain the correct AFR's. I'm running a BAK, ported manifold, and speedstar long drag pipes. I am at 600 ft elevation with a 182.5 main #45 pilot PMS 3 1/4 turns and speedstar needle on clip 4. It dynoed at 68.15hp and 98.74 tq. and my AFR's were good in all ranges. Nothing running rich.
When you see the jetting that some are running they may have a 1600 not a 1700. The 1600's are jetted smaller. Also there are many ways to jet. You can get your bike to run good with the leaner jets in the idle and cruising ranges. And you can get to the proper AFR's thru needle adjustment and pms adjustments at idle and cruising range. But IMHO you won't get the HP/Tq that you are capable of getting if your lean on the main. Your bike could drink all the fuel from a 182.5 when it was built and it still can. Also the only way to ever know if your jetting is correct is to put it on a Dyno and see the results. Don't guess.

Thats valuable input Dave. I never tuned a speedstar needle, but I know its fatter than the Dyna and Barons are.

I did however always tune to AFR. And there is no way I could count the number of bikes I tuned that way. With the Dyna and Baron's needles I could never get a Road Star (both 1600 and 1700) to go any fatter than a 175 mikuni jet. And with both needles, I always saw AFR differences with every single needle (not jet) adjustment. So I would say that based on my own experience that the needle is never totally out of the circuit.

I agree that getting it spot on really is best done with some kind of AFR measurement.

Just my $.02

Gram

Gram wrote:


With the Dyna and Baron's needles I could never get a Road Star (both 1600 and 1700) to go any fatter than a 175 mikuni jet. And with both needles, I always saw AFR differences with every single needle (not jet) adjustment. So I would say that based on my own experience that the needle is never totally out of the circuit.

I agree that getting it spot on really is best done with some kind of AFR measurement.

Just my $.02

Gram

I agree that the needle is never totally out of the curcuit thats why I said an aftermarket needle comes "mostly" into play in the cruising range.
Just curious but from what your saying it sounds like the Barons and dyna must be too thin to tune the cruising range with a fatter main. Is that correct?

davej wrote:
Just curious but from what your saying it sounds like the Barons and dyna must be too thin to tune the cruising range with a fatter main. Is that correct?

Yes they are considerably thinner than OEM. I not able to use a larger main than 172.5 with the Baron's needle.

Doc

Thanks Doc.
I didn't relize that they were so thin to have that much effect in the mid range. Just seems like you would be loosing on the top side if you can't give it as much fuel as it can take. My lowest afr at WOT was @ 12.3 when hp peaked. According to the chart I'm using that is within WOT range. I guess you never stop learning.

I have mine jetted in a way that most would think lean but I've been struggling with an slightly rich condition for some time now. Reset the float level this spring so I'll see now that works out but if not I'll have to take it in or pick up an analyzer.

Doc

I've considered buying a air/fuel gauge to mount in the dash. But they are a bit pricy at about $275 with the sensor. But it would continuously monitor your AFR. I keep trying to convince myself that I could get the perfect tune with one. You could tweak and try evry combination of jets and needle settings available and know exacty where you are at without the dyno cost. Just can't justify the $275

On my 07 I started with the same mods as my 05. Main 172.5 Barons needle clip on 3 white spacer two silver washers 35 pilot. The 07 dynoed lean in a couple of places so he recommended a 175/180 main and a 37.5 pilot. I made the changes and yet to have the second dyno but seems to run much better at idle and WOT.No change on the needle and the changes were based on the AFR. The 05 was spot on with the AFR so I will let you know how te second dyno turns out. Go figure!

davej wrote:
I agree that the needle is never totally out of the curcuit thats why I said an aftermarket needle comes "mostly" into play in the cruising range.
Just curious but from what your saying it sounds like the Barons and dyna must be too thin to tune the cruising range with a fatter main. Is that correct?

With the thinner needles, the smaller mains are all the engine can take without going rich, even at highest rpms. Even though the needle is no longer in control at highest rpms, it is still metering flow just by being in the tube. I didn't realize the speedstar needle would choke it down that much but you have the proof with your Dyno run.

The Barons and Dyna can tune the entire rpm range. I have participated in several dyno runs with both and they do a good job across the entire rpm range.

This is good stuff to know about the speedstar needle.

Gram