Greysnake wrote:
RK the one thing that was not mentioned for an air leak where the carb attaches to the manifold. If it's increasing rpm's when you spray alot in there it could be going in there instead of the air cleaner. Just a thought.

GS--

That's the WEIRD thing...it's not increasing the RPM, as I would expect with starting spray, but if I saturate the area it actually decreases the RPM and would die if I kept spraying. When I stop RPM comes back UP to normal after a few seconds.

When I had the manifold off, I checked it carefully...oddly, it's in great shape. Not even micro cracks.

RK

scottw wrote:

Assumming stock 40CV carb if you ensure theres no more vac leaks then its plain old running lean in transition when you said its acting up in the 2k-2300rpm range.

But also ensure accell pump is working & is also adj properly so as soon as throttle cabel oves/butterfly in carb more the accell pump is shooting a shot of fuel .

If accell pumps isnt working or not adj properly it will cause stumbling too.

If all that chks out ok (no vac leaks & accell pump is working good and adj properly )then since you say it seems to run decent in all rpm range but when at light load part thorttle cuise in approx 2k-2300rpm range i'd say carbs lean in transition from low speed to higher speed main circut and i'd bet my bottom dollar a half or at most full step richer on needle clip adj will fix it,been thetre done that on my R* and many other bikes over the yrs too.

My 06 with pipes was doing same thing and pms out to 3.5 with stock 35 pilot jet didnt richen it enough so i put pms back to a more reaonsable 2.75-3 turns out from light seat and installed an additonal washer under neeld clips for slight tweake richer .

Doing that fixed the lean part throttle cond in 2k-2300rpm range in my bike.

After doing that thin washer under needle clip slight tweak richer adj on my 06 silverado when Riding 2 up with bags fully loaded inc more/addiitonal aftermarket bags mounted on rear luggage rack,tall windscreen,31T pulley (turns slightly more rpm at cruise then stock) i still get 40.5-41mpg @ 65-68mph open road cruise speed & get 36-38mpg in mixed city/open rosd riding.

No matter what people say theres a slight overlap in circuts that neelde clip postion can affect lower throttle positons too which i have found to be true so many times over the 40+ yrs tuning motorcycle carbs esp for aftermakrket pipes/BAK-aftermarket air filters etc.

You may find it needs a full step richer needle clip adj but 1st try half step richer on needle clip setting with 1 additonal thin washer under needle clip.

Then see how that does before going a full step richer on needle clip adj if its not needed.

But if 1/2 step richer helps a bit but doesnt fully fix the lean cond in 2k-2300rpm range then remove the additonal washer used for half step needle clip adj and go a 1 full step down richer from top-blunt end of needle and that should hopefully fix it.ort is a 20 mins needle clip adj

So long story short is if it still acts lean post ensuring the accell pump is in fact working properly a quick needle clip like i suggested could very likely fix your carb issue just like it did on my 06 silverado that had the same issue yours does.

Maybe on 2nd thought i'd opt for a 1 full step richer needle adj for 1st try because you said its really farting/stumbling in showing its excessive lean in 2k-2300rom range and not just a little mushy with little to no stumbling that would show only slightly lean.

BTW,pulling carb appart for larger 37 pilot could poss fix it too but the slight needle clip effectively does same thing enriching where it needs it without going into carb. It didnt kill mpg in my case either riding 2 up bags fully loaded inc more/addiitonal aftermarket bags mounted on rear luggage rack,tall windscreen,31T pulley(turning little more rpm at cruise vs stock pulley) & i still get 40.5-41mpg @ 65-68mph (70mph at times) open road cruising inc plenty of hills/mountains in NY state & get 36-38mpg in mixed city/open road riding 2up too with all else the same on the bike.

Scott

Scott--

I think moving the needle from 3.5 (3rd clip, two washers) to the 4th clip, one washer will be the first thing (easiest) I try--that's where I had it before & didn't have this problem. As Curt mentioned, I changed too many things at once since I had the tank off and didn't want to take it off again if I didn't have to...lazy, I know...guilty.

I did the accel pump nut flip a long time ago, effectively turning it off, and never had this problem before. Right now it's back in stock position (nut under screw head). Maybe I'll just do one thing first & try the needle...

Thanks,

RK

I wonder how the TPS is. I've had to change them on automobiles due to dead spots in the resistance coil. That could be checked relatively easily. the biggest thing would be a smooth, linear transition from closed to W.O.T. This is a time when a big ol' analog Simpson meter would be the hot setup. We are all stuck on fuel and air here, and assuming since the plug sparks when we check it at cranking speed, that it's good all the way. I've had TPS and Ignition modules create RPM specific stumbles and farts before in my autos, so I'm just throwing that in, since this poor guy is going nuts!

jd750ace wrote:
I wonder how the TPS is. I've had to change them on automobiles due to dead spots in the resistance coil. That could be checked relatively easily. the biggest thing would be a smooth, linear transition from closed to W.O.T. This is a time when a big ol' analog Simpson meter would be the hot setup. We are all stuck on fuel and air here, and assuming since the plug sparks when we check it at cranking speed, that it's good all the way. I've had TPS and Ignition modules create RPM specific stumbles and farts before in my autos, so I'm just throwing that in, since this poor guy is going nuts!

Thanks, JD, I'm willing to consider anything right now. To quote the general from the movie 'Blue Thunder': "Hell, I'd piss on a spark plug if I thought it'd help!"

RK

Just to clarify...If i spray the starting fluid and there is a leak, are the RPMs supposed to get higher or lower in the presence of a leak? Mine get much lower...

Back to the garage!

Thanks,

RK

Roadkill1962 wrote:
Just to clarify...If i spray the starting fluid and there is a leak, are the RPMs supposed to get higher or lower in the presence of a leak? Mine get much lower...

Back to the garage!

Thanks,

RK

BUMP...anyone...?

got the carb off, so now's the time to tell me!

Roadkill1962 wrote:
Roadkill1962 wrote:
Just to clarify...If i spray the starting fluid and there is a leak, are the RPMs supposed to get higher or lower in the presence of a leak? Mine get much lower...

Back to the garage!

Thanks,

RK

BUMP...anyone...?

got the carb off, so now's the time to tell me!

======================

REMOVED THE CARB!

DANG,I would have 1ST taken a few mins to simply remove platic cap on carb to raise the needle clip adj for some enrichement before removing the carb to recalibrate pms etc when it may not have needed it.

Like i told you before my 06 had same issue in 2k-2,200 or so rpm range just like your bike does and taking 15-20mins to do a slight/minor enrichement of needle clip cured it in my bikes case ,that was 3 yrs ago and it still runs great.

I think fatteneing up PMS/pilot mixture could also help you but you said the motor ran well accept for when in the 2k-2,300rpm range and the tweak i suggested should fix it along with also ensuring you get the accell pump back in working order and properly adj & there are no more intake leaks too.

Either way you choose to go after it is up to you & just as long as you get it fixed is what counts.

Good luck!

Scott

scottw wrote:
Roadkill1962 wrote:
Roadkill1962 wrote:
Just to clarify...If i spray the starting fluid and there is a leak, are the RPMs supposed to get higher or lower in the presence of a leak? Mine get much lower...

Back to the garage!

Thanks,

RK

BUMP...anyone...?

got the carb off, so now's the time to tell me!

======================

REMOVED THE CARB!

DANG,I would have 1ST taken a few mins to simply remove platic cap on carb to raise the needle clip adj for some enrichement before removing the carb to recalibrate pms etc when it may not have needed it.

Like i told you before my 06 had same issue in 2k-2,200 or so rpm range just like your bike does and taking 15-20mins to do a slight/minor enrichement of needle clip cured it in my bikes case ,that was 3 yrs ago and it still runs great.

I think fatteneing up PMS/pilot mixture could also help you but you said the motor ran well accept for when in the 2k-2,300rpm range and the tweak i suggested should fix it along with also ensuring you get the accell pump back in working order and properly adj & there are no more intake leaks too.

Either way you choose to go after it is up to you & just as long as you get it fixed is what counts.

Good luck!

Scott

Well, once the tank is off, removing the carb is another 10 minutes, tops. Done it TOO many times. I figured I'd look in and around make sure everything looked OK, haven't changed anything except to go 1/2 step richer on needle (3.5 to 4 from blunt end).

I'm trying to find out whether the idle is supposed to go UP or DOWN if there's a vacuum leak in the manifold and it gets sprayed with starting fluid. I've read everywhere I can find, and even Bulldog's tech article just said the idle will sound "different". Well, different higher or different lower? It's probably a moot point, but at this point I WANNA KNOW!!! LMAO

I'm not convinced the starting fluid spray wasn't getting into the carb through the back of the air cleaner, since like I said short shots do nothing, but saturating the area make the idle drop way down. The spray can isn't one that accepts a straw, so when I'm spraying it, it's going everywhere--no pinpoint accuracy possible. The tech article said use WD-40, so maybe I'll try that and spray from the carb side instead of the fuel pump side.

At this point, I have two choices--grind the ring retention nubs, change to fat o-rings & reseal with Hylomar...again...or put the carb back on, rig up a small gravity-fed gas line for testing and spray the manifold again.

Thanks,

RK

Roadkill1962 wrote:
scottw wrote:
Roadkill1962 wrote:
Roadkill1962 wrote:
Just to clarify...If i spray the starting fluid and there is a leak, are the RPMs supposed to get higher or lower in the presence of a leak? Mine get much lower...

Back to the garage!

Thanks,

RK

BUMP...anyone...?

got the carb off, so now's the time to tell me!

======================

REMOVED THE CARB!

DANG,I would have 1ST taken a few mins to simply remove platic cap on carb to raise the needle clip adj for some enrichement before removing the carb to recalibrate pms etc when it may not have needed it.

Like i told you before my 06 had same issue in 2k-2,200 or so rpm range just like your bike does and taking 15-20mins to do a slight/minor enrichement of needle clip cured it in my bikes case ,that was 3 yrs ago and it still runs great.

I think fatteneing up PMS/pilot mixture could also help you but you said the motor ran well accept for when in the 2k-2,300rpm range and the tweak i suggested should fix it along with also ensuring you get the accell pump back in working order and properly adj & there are no more intake leaks too.

Either way you choose to go after it is up to you & just as long as you get it fixed is what counts.

Good luck!

Scott

Well, once the tank is off, removing the carb is another 10 minutes, tops. Done it TOO many times. I figured I'd look in and around make sure everything looked OK, haven't changed anything except to go 1/2 step richer on needle (3.5 to 4 from blunt end).

I'm trying to find out whether the idle is supposed to go UP or DOWN if there's a vacuum leak in the manifold and it gets sprayed with starting fluid. I've read everywhere I can find, and even Bulldog's tech article just said the idle will sound "different". Well, different higher or different lower? It's probably a moot point, but at this point I WANNA KNOW!!! LMAO

I'm not convinced the starting fluid spray wasn't getting into the carb through the back of the air cleaner, since like I said short shots do nothing, but saturating the area make the idle drop way down. The spray can isn't one that accepts a straw, so when I'm spraying it, it's going everywhere--no pinpoint accuracy possible. The tech article said use WD-40, so maybe I'll try that and spray from the carb side instead of the fuel pump side.

At this point, I have two choices--grind the ring retention nubs, change to fat o-rings & reseal with Hylomar...again...or put the carb back on, rig up a small gravity-fed gas line for testing and spray the manifold again.

Thanks,

RK
=========================================================================

Or 3rd choice is you could simply richen needle and if it runs good forget about it at that point.

As for testing for vacuum leak,its hard to ensure test fluid isnt getting sucked into the carb while spraying on-arround intake checking for leaks making you think its got a vac leak when it doesnt.

And since you said just resealed the intake & also said it looked to be in very good shape with no cracks etc i would think it would less likely to be leaking at this point because you just resealed it.

Just hang in there because i bet you will eventually get it fixed with some carb tuning.

Scott

scottw wrote:

=========================================================================

Or 3rd choice is you could simply richen needle and if it runs good forget about it at that point.

As for testing for vacuum leak,its hard to ensure test fluid isnt getting sucked into the carb while spraying on-arround intake checking for leaks making you think its got a vac leak when it doesnt.

And since you said just resealed the intake & also said it looked to be in very good shape with no cracks etc i would think it would less likely to be leaking at this point because you just resealed it.

Just hang in there because i bet you will eventually get it fixed with some carb tuning.

Scott

Oh, I'll get it...or I'll shoot it.

I wasn't confident in the seal, so I just took the manifold off & resealed it with a fresh bead of Hylomar. I moved the needle from 3.5 to 4th clip, and turned the PMS back to 3 from 3.5 for a starting point. Put it all back together and it started easily & sounded good. (knock on wood)

Still had yard work to do & the sun was going down, so I put 'er up for the evening & will give it the ol' acid test tomorrow and see how she runs. Thanks for all your input! FWIW, I'll post results tomorrow.

Thanks,

RK