As I mentioned in an earlier post, the stock and aftermarket needles differ by more than the number of grooves, The taper of the needles is different so the jets need to accommodate for that difference.

When you get the correct needle, place the clip on the fifth groove and do the WOT test. This should help to determine if the main is OK. Once you have the proper main, put the clip to 4 and test.

If it runs OK, try switching out the 37.5 for a 35.

Doc

will do

ok i ended up getting a speedstar jet kit and put the 170 main 35 pilot with the clip in the 5th groove and it seemed to hold at the wot test. surging and not very good idle and on decel a little popping.took back apart and went to the 4th groove to see if any better and pretty much the same but sluggish and surging bad.so i put the 165 main, clip in the 5th and here it go's 50 pilot jet.now it seems lean on the wot but cruising and accel seems good. idle is smoother but black smoke and have to keep adjusting at startup and when its warmed up.i thought that with all the setting trials i would figure where to go but seems that i gain one circuit and loose the anothers.i'm starting to get confused i guess.

Why did you go to a 50? What is your PMS set at?

Try my settings yours looks a lot like mine is your manifold ported? I am running 172.5 main, clip on 3 with two silver washers under the spacer, 40 pilot, Barons PMS out 3 turns. It runs great. Good luck you can use this to jet by start with starting low end cicuit, get the idle right and smooth, then the needle, then the main.
http://baronscustom.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1344&sid=1afdf4500377eb68263a5d2872e9019e

Did you check for leaks?

Did you check the float level after jetting?

Surging is usually a sign of a lean condition so it good to get the above two out of the way. Another sign of lean is if it runs better when cold than hot. When at speed did pulling the choke out a bit help the surging?

Depending on your PMS setting you should have also tried turning your PMS out 1/2 turn at a time with your initial settings.

Doc

answer to musky's ? is i was thinking, with the 35 pilot i was way to lean.and the pms adjusted at about 2 1/4-2 1/2 with that setting of 165 main 50 pilot and 5th groove
answer to doc's ? is yes to all but did not try the choke pull when surging.
does it make sense that knowing the 170 main to rich and the 35 to lean and the 165 to lean and the 50 to rich to go to the 167.5 and the 37.5 pilot for a starting point to see what it does?

Normally you make one change at time. If you do more that one change hoping to nail it, and you don't, you're left wondering where to go from there.

As the main is the easiest to dial in, we suggest you do that first. You need to do the WOT to dial the main in. Once the main is dialed, move the needle until performance suffers. This way will get a balance between performance and gas mileage.

It's assumed that there are no leaks and the float level is to spec. If both are not, then it will be difficult to properly jet the carb.

Doc

i finally got back to the bike and took docs advice and stopped trying to nail the settings.so i worked hard on the main and ended up with the 167.5 main in the 3rd groove with a 37.5 pilot that adjusted at about 2 1/4 or so.this gave me the best cruising and accel but it still sluggish and only 27 mpg.so i went to see how close or stupid i am and put it on the dyno.to find a place that dynos metrics with experience was hard to find in michigan.i found ray c's out of lapeer mi.after 2 hrs of testing and tuning the bike ended up with a 160 main 37.5 pilot and adjusted @ a little over 2 turnes out.i'm scared to death for some reason on the 160 main in there.the tech said he tore it apart 3 times to get these settings and the bike had a problem @ 4200 rpms.the bike would drop right off becuase of being to rich at that point.he said after each test when took the air box off it would have excess gas in the charger.he also said when the air box was off the bike it would run awsome.he blamed it on the short shot exhuast and said some cones would help that problem but not cure it.the only good news i got was he said i did a good job on the porting of the manifold.the service mgr ask the tech if the valves were sticking and replied there was no indication and they looked clean when he mirrored the intake valves through the manifold.the result from the test 69.59 hp and 98.51 torq. and looking at the graph you can see the drop off starting at 4200 rpms.i'm not sure what stock hp and torque is and i know i'm not going to be very good racing someone so do i live with the pretty airbox and exhuast or do i change it up.i just dont know.i'm going to indy this weekend and i dont want to smoke the bike with that main so i could use some more advice.

Where's the chart?

Those are good numbers.

If the A/F ratio is correct then don't worry about what's in the carb ... you're not lean ... and if it was, your bike would be coughing and choking.

Interesting setup. Normally the HP starts to decline around 4500 so what you are seeing may be normal. Without seeing the chart I'd say you may dropping off earlier 'cause of the lean main (160) and compensating for it somewhat by the larger pilot.

Did he try a 35 with a 165 or 167.5?

Doc