To you all

Ive noticed that a lot of problems with the Road Star can be attributed to
owner abuse...
Sticky valve caused by use of hi octane gas...and over fill of oil
Messin with the Carbs and .. causing leaky manifolds etc
I dont care... you tear down any engine...trouble will find ya...
And the oil thing... and the recall for abnormal wear of gears
and many still insist the new auto oil in the tranny is OK..when it is NOT

Nope.

Pop Rivet wrote:
To you all

problems attributed to owner abuse...
Sticky valve caused by use of hi octane gas...and over fill of oil
Messin with the Carbs and .. causing leaky manifolds etc
And the oil thing... and the recall for abnormal wear of gears
and many still insist the new auto oil in the tranny is OK..when it is NOT
I do not see how any of the items you listed are owner abuse. Most of the problems with sticky valves are with owners who do not use high octane gas from what I have seen. My bike had the problem in the past and I have never used high octane gas. But I do think that incorrect jetting can contribute to it.

The subject of overfilling the oil is folks following the manual on what the recommended amount is. If Yamaha feels that the amount is to much, they should put out a service bulletin annoucing it is to much.

Rejetting or tuning a carb should not cause a leaking intake. Maybe the real problem is a poorly designed intake?

The recall is for a bad circlip (at least the last recall was), not abnormal wear of gears. The engine and transmission are both in the same case and do in fact share the same oil. The transfer case has the oil reservoir as part of it. But it is seperated from the transfer case chain on the right side of the bike which requires the thicker hypoid type of oil.<br><br>Post edited by: USAFRETIRED, at: 2006/10/15 14:26

Stirring the Pot, just stirring the pot. It's been too quiet around here, not enough testosterone me thinks. The &quot;wrong&quot; oil... are you refering to the use of automobile oil? I think that if the motorcycle oil was more reasonably priced or if a case was truly made for it's superiority and necessity in the motorcycle there would be no question what would be used.

People that spend thousands to repaint, reseat, change frames, buy chrome, and add all sorts of aftermarket gee gaws to their rides would not quibble about the cost of Yamalube if they thought it was superior and necessary. I'll bet most of the riders here feel that their oil of choice is equal to or superior to the reccomended Yamalube. If Yamalube were better wouldn't it be rated higher than its competitiors? It isn't.

Besides the whole point of the cruiser motorcycle is the fact you can modify it to your hearts content. Ain't nothin' but a hot rod on two wheels.

Just stirring up a discussion
Sorry. but the circlip itself was not defective

In affected motorcycles, certain transmission components may not meet Yamaha

quality-control standards, which could allow abnormal wear that eventually

results in a broken retaining circlip. If the circlip breaks, the transmission could

lock up, which would also cause the rear wheel to lock up. This could result in

loss of control and a vehicle crash with injury or death.



AND the fix is more than a new clip

I get the feel from my readings... far too many are using hi octane gas in the R*

The transmission gears require better oil than bearings and rings in the crankcase and phosporous and zinc are what these gears need ... which has been takin out of the new auto oils to meet catalytic converter and emission standards the new friction modifiers like molybendum and PTFE dont do the job
And musing on what a good friend wrote
If it's running good leave it alone. If it's running good leave it alone. If it's running good leave it alone!! As soon as I get done being P.O.d I'm going back down and put everything back where it was.

Why can't we learn to leave it alone?


and reflecting on the times when Ive cursed my own tinkering and stupidity

Cause I went for a spin today.. cool weather around 10 deg c and shes running great... like that Ape.... King ?? ... I saw on the movie channel last night ...when he's pissed off..

Im trying to answer myself.. Can I do anything to make this thing run better???

Say What???<br><br>Post edited by: Pop Rivet, at: 2006/10/15 23:33

Pop Rivet wrote:
To you all

Ive noticed that a lot of problems with the Road Star can be attributed to
owner abuse...
Sticky valve caused by use of hi octane gas...and over fill of oil
Messin with the Carbs and .. causing leaky manifolds etc
I dont care... you tear down any engine...trouble will find ya...
And the oil thing... and the recall for abnormal wear of gears
and many still insist the new auto oil in the tranny is OK..when it is NOT


Premium gas could contribute I suppose but I think if it's that touchy you would get sticky valves anyway. I don't see how jetting can cause sticky valves unless you jetted richer than factory.

The oil over fill is because of Yamaha. It's not like people were putting in more than recommended. And now they changed the valves in 06 and are recommending less oil. They messed up.

The manifolds are junk right from the factory. They're built to leak. They use O rings because they are more able to fill the gaps left by the lousy finish work done to the mating surfaces. If they wanted to do it right they should have machined the surface and used gaskets. Ya know, made it fit right. Think what a mess it would be if they did that poor a job on the rest of the motor. Not to mention the ridiculous sharp 90 degree corners they put inside that are factory designed to screw up air flow. If you want to get the locked up ponies out of the motor you're forced to take the manifold off to work on it or replace it.

You don't need motorcycle oil. Thousands and thousands of miles has proven that. Even Amsoil (A trusted name) has admitted that. After they bumped the price of their 20/50 motorcycle oil a couple bucks a quart and people started saying screw you they sent out a notice saying it was perfectly fine to use their plain old auto 20/50 synthetic in your motorcycle.

All just my opinion.

And I'm going to leave mine alone from now................................ until spring

Musky

There is only one way to change the oil and get a proper level and that is outlined in the article on the clinics home page

Because it is a dry sump system and more care is needed to avoid overfill
Hell.. when I picked up my new Harley in 1989 from the dealer I drove a few blocks and decided to stop and admire the bike looked down and saw this big puddle of oil which came from the air filter ....and of course after ridin Shadows I thought ..o yes and this IS a Harley after all but the F&quot;&quot;&quot; dealer overfilled the oil tank gee my confidence in my dealer rose to an alltime hi

And transmision gears do put a lot more shear stress on oil than roller bearings in the crankcase and Musky it has only been recently that phosphorous and zinc levels have been reduced to meet the demands of the auto industry for oils than are not hard on the emmission control systems driven by extended warrenties etc
to compensate the have put in friction modifiers like molybendum, PTFE(teflon)
BUT the motorcycle manufacturers were concerned how this would IMPACT MOTORCYCLES
where engine and transmission dutys are shared by the same oil...
That is why motorcycle specific oil is different in that it is JASO MA for wet clutch use and has higher levels of zinc and phosphorous which reduces wear on transmission gears
Abnormal wear will lead to circlip failure etc and we can avoid this if we use oil that has not been raped of the ingredients that protect against it

And Musky there are bikes that have thousands of miles on them that are now in the new expanded recall....does that mean there is no abnormal wear and need to fix??
HELL ya might be able to run the Roadie on Olive Oil if Pop Eye doesnt mind

And I see there are different part numbers for the valves from 05 to 06
But the inner and outter valve springs are the same from previous years and I thought the fix for stickin valve was heavier valve springs and reaming of the valve guides???

Musky Id love to see a copy of that notice from Amsoil
because it contradicts what they are saying about their mcv syn oil

And again it is the motorcycle manufacturers in Japan that have raised concerns as well as JASO (Japanese Automotive Standards Organization)

http://www.aac-jasoinfo.com/jaso_web/index.htm

Post edited by: Pop Rivet, at: 2006/10/16 02:00<br><br>Post edited by: Pop Rivet, at: 2006/10/16 02:04

Musky

I am very surprised at your comments.. especially since concerns over oil was driven by the Japanese motorcycle industry and had nothin to do with the marketing ploys of oil companies although it sounds like you think so...
Demand for the product came ...and the oil companies responded

The Car manufacturers demanded from the oil companies an oil that was energy conserving and addressed emmission standards imposed on them by EPA etc the API responded and oil companies developed an oil which was motorcycle unfriendly
Later in 1998, the Japanese Automotive Standards Organization laid to rest the dilemma for 4-cycle motorcycle owners. Though 4-cycle motorcycle engines may be considered more similar to automobile engines than 2-stroke motorcycle engines, they still have very different performance requirements. Historically, 4-stroke motorcycles have had problems with gear pitting wear in the transmissions and clutch slippage. In many cases, this can be directly attributed to the oil used. Most automotive engine oil is developed to minimize friction and maximize fuel economy. Since the oil for many 4-stroke motorcycles is circulated not only through the engine [as with an automobile], but also through the transmission and clutch, different characteristics are required of the oil. First, a certain amount of friction is necessary to prevent clutch slippage. Second, the oil needs to prevent wear and pitting in the gears of the transmission. These and other essential characteristics are addressed in the standards developed by JASO for 4-stroke engines.



AND another point Id like to make....
The Market for motorcycle oil is smaller ... so from Economics 001
Unit costs are higher for the consumer because volume is not there as in auto oil and if the oil companies cant turn a profit then we WILL have to use Olive Oil<br><br>Post edited by: Pop Rivet, at: 2006/10/16 00:47

My Summary

Auto oil could lead to premature wear in the transmission gears which could lead to circlip failure which could lead to lock up which could lead to DEATH
but HELL I saved a bundle on oil changes and I gave the finger to the Oil companies because they had the gall.. to develop motorcycle oil that was no better than its Auto oil<br><br>Post edited by: Pop Rivet, at: 2006/10/16 01:47

Pop Rivet wrote:
Musky

There is only one way to change the oil and get a proper level and that is outlined in the article on the clinics home page

Because it is a dry sump system and more care is needed to avoid overfill
Hell.. when I picked up my new Harley in 1989 from the dealer I drove a few blocks and decided to stop and admire the bike looked down and saw this big puddle of oil which came from the air filter ....and of course after ridin Shadows I thought ..o yes and this IS a Harley after all but the F&quot;&quot;&quot; dealer overfilled the oil tank gee my confidence in my dealer rose to an alltime hi



i&acute;ve come across this with harleys when the wrong oil filter has been used.

the first was on an ironhead sportster (low pressure system) when an evo sportster filter was fitted. all the oil came pissing out the breather.

same on an evo when a tc88 filter had been used. the tc88 runs higher pressure than the evo, and uses a 10 micron filter. put one of them on an evo, and you get a scale model of the amoco cadiz straight from the breather.

as for oils, here at the shop i only use bel-ray for mine and my clients. good price, good oil.