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TOPIC: Re:Using Premium Fuel
#292974
texasscott1 (User)
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Re:Using Premium Fuel 1 Year, 11 Months ago  
I'll keep that in mind Jeff. I always thought that premium's resistance to detonation required at least a little more spark advance in order to reach peak combustion pressure by the time the crank throw was at 90 degrees.

Scott B.
 
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JeffBrown (User)
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Re:Using Premium Fuel 1 Year, 10 Months ago  
Scott, I checked with the pops and he said the other additives that are added that raise the fuel's resistance to detonation requires more energy to ignite because it's now more stable. He did add that with our bike's stock ignition system it should not affect it adversely however the bike is engineered to be able to optimally burn the regular fuel. Even folks like me that have been building engines for a while can learn new things!
 
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Ringo (User)
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Re:Using Premium Fuel 1 Year, 10 Months ago  
Interesting thread! I have never used any Premium fuel in my RS but I always try to use Shell regular....I found I get anywhere from 2-5 miles a gallon more than any other brand, has anyone had the same results using Shell fuel?

Ringo
 
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Big Dawg (User)
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Re:Using Premium Fuel 1 Year, 10 Months ago  
My mileage is way too variable from tank to tank to be able to run taht sort of comparison. From 35 mpg buring down the Interstate to 50 mpg running through the backroads in the mountains.




BD
 
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Re:Using Premium Fuel 1 Year, 10 Months ago  
Personally.......I only use Shell or Chevron Premium in my RS as I saw a difference in the ZIP with my Venture Royale which I previously owned, so I'm a creature of habit ! And I toss in some Sea Foam once a month just for good measure.
 
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texasscott1 (User)
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Re:Using Premium Fuel 1 Year, 10 Months ago  
I guess the main thing is that whatever you use stick with a good brand and Shell is a good one.

Scott B.
 
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#293401
PapaTom (Moderator)
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Re:Using Premium Fuel 1 Year, 10 Months ago  
The Venture Royale's compression is 10.5:1 (for the 1200), while our Roadies are 8.3:1. You could get away with using Premium in your VR without throwing your dollars away. I owned an '86 VR and never used Premium, and it ran fine imho. I'd recommend you try Regular and see if you can tell any noticeable difference.
 
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Last Edit: 2010/07/03 22:57 By PapaTom.
 

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jimbocentral (User)
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Re:Using Premium Fuel 1 Year, 10 Months ago  
I've always used Shell 89 octane, never had a problem yet!
 
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Re:Using Premium Fuel 1 Year, 10 Months ago  
U use ONLY shell for the nitro. I have a good friend that is one of the top mechanics in the USA and heads up a very famous racing team. Here is what he says about octane:

Octane affects the flash point of gasoline, period.

The flash point is the point at which the vapors from the fuel will ignite by means of heat, instead of spark.
It's also known as 'dieseling'.

Just to help clarify some terms also:
Pre-ignition, detonation, pinging, are not interchangable terms.
Pre-ignition is when the vapors ignite from heat, not spark.
Detonation is what happens AFTER pre-igntion occurs.
Detonation is the result of two flame fronts (one by pre-ignition, the second by spark) colliding in a massive release of heat energy.
Pinging/Spark Knock is the noise you hear as a result of the two flame fronts colliding.

The amount of pressure present in the cylinder will actually surpress spark combustion. One of the many reasons that high boost engines require very small spark gaps and very high ignition voltage.
The more compression you have, the higher the electrical resistance is present and the harder the plug is to fire.
However, the more compression you have, the greater the change of pre-ignition there is... that's why high compression engines detonate so easily.
Ever see a Top Fuel motor? They run DUAL 44amp magnetos putting out about 70,000 volts, each... and spark plugs in the 10 and 11 heat range with a gap of only .015-0.017".

All you are doing by increasing octane, is increasing the point at which the gasoline vapors will ignite by heat. When you change the compression ratio, you change the heat level. High compression generally generates higher combustion temperatures.

Now, if you take a 12.0:1 compression engine at 90 degree ambient air temp, and run it on 87 gasoline... will it ping? Possibly.
Compression is NOT the only thing that makes an engine ping.
Take that same 12.0:1 compression engine and take it where it can run in 40 degree ambient air... Likely, it will not ping. You could likely even increase the compression ratio to 12.5:1 and still not have it ping.

Just another thing to throw in to the mix.
In general, the slower a fuel burns, the more power it can produce.
That is generally the case in most all fuels... even gun powder.

It's all a balancing act, really. You can't just say that high compression engines need higher octane gas. You HAVE to factor in the enviroment(termperature and altitude), the cylinder head design, etc.. There are MANY factors that determine whether or not an engine will detonate.

But, as it's been said, the regular bikes do not generally require high octane gasoline. However, if you live somewhere that has extreme heat (such as parts of California, Arizona, New Mexico, etc...) a higher octane gas may be needed as your outside air temp rises.

So, why do some people notice a difference in power when switching to high octane gas? Well, likely, they live in an environment that makes it necessary. If you have aftermarket exhaust on your ride, you may not hear the pinging.. Switching to a higher octane gas IF your engine is pinging can and most likely will result in better gas mileage and more power. Why? Well, let's look at the cycle of an engine.
On the intake stroke, the cylinder takes in an intake charge that consists of gasoline and air. As the piston moves up on the compression stroke, that mixture starts to heat up. If it gets too hot and flashes before the spark ignites the fuel at the appropriate time, the flash point flame starts burning bottom to top. Not the way you want the flame to burn. You want a downward expansion. Now, as the bottom flame is burning upwards, the spark plug ignites the mixture and starts burning top to bottom.
The two flame fronts collide and all that energy that would normally be used to push the piston down has exerted much of itself upwards and outwards as the flame rises and collides. This force is also trying to push the piston back down as it's trying to come up in the hole.
Now, switch to a higher octane gas and the gas is resistant to the heat generated by compression and outside air so that the plug ignites the mixture at the appropriate time. Now, the expansion of the exhaust gases are expanding correctly in time with the piston. As the piston travels over TDC, the expanding gas can push the piston back down in the hole with the majority of it's energy. So, does pre-ignition cause power loss? Absolutely. Will higher octane fuel help? Absolutely. Will you get more power by running higher octane fuel? Yes, in a case where pre-ignition is robbing the engine of power. Will it always give more power? Nope. If it's not detonating, the higher octane is not doing anything.

And no, higher octane doesn't burn any cleaner or dirtier than low octane gas.
 
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Last Edit: 2010/07/04 09:54 By Dragoon.
 
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#293423
MS1700 (User)
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Re:Using Premium Fuel 1 Year, 10 Months ago  
I'll let ya all know all about fuel here pretty soon, I just got a Job As a Petroleum Transfer Engineer, I start next week, but I have already learned a lot talking with my new employer. It won't take long to figure out what is what in the fuel dept. I have already been told that since the new EPA regs went into effect almost all use 10K gallon tanks so most all the gas is fairly fresh, he said the stations in small towns are hardest to keep up with because of that. (More people using one tank)

My policy up to now is buy at busy stations, and add what I want so I know whats in there. My Favs are Lucas fuel additive and Seafoam of course.
 
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