silver_fox wrote:
On a side note... With the ballistic LI-ION battery, there's a note that reads:

*NOTE: Developed as a starter battery in a powersports application. If there is a parasitic draw on your powersports vehicle (such as an alarm) we recommend that you disconnect the battery when not in use. If the battery is completely drained the cells can be damaged.

So,could you use that one if you have a radio? And what about the clock on the R*? Would that be a problem?

deadlion has alot of stuff hooked up to his roadie and it dont seam to bother it. but i also think that the ballistic battery takes a special charger/tender being its lithium.

smokescreens wrote:
silver_fox wrote:
On a side note... With the ballistic LI-ION battery, there's a note that reads:

*NOTE: Developed as a starter battery in a powersports application. If there is a parasitic draw on your powersports vehicle (such as an alarm) we recommend that you disconnect the battery when not in use. If the battery is completely drained the cells can be damaged.

So,could you use that one if you have a radio? And what about the clock on the R*? Would that be a problem?

deadlion has alot of stuff hooked up to his roadie and it dont seam to bother it. but i also think that the ballistic battery takes a special charger/tender being its lithium.

It say's "no special charger needed" IMO if I don't have to change the charging system on my vehicle to run a special battery then I can use any charger I have in the garage. I would think that if you are concerned about a parasitic draw and damaging the battery you could still use a battery maintainer. It says not required , not that you can't use one. They even sell a pigtail to hook up a charger.

davej wrote:
smokescreens wrote:
silver_fox wrote:
On a side note... With the ballistic LI-ION battery, there's a note that reads:

*NOTE: Developed as a starter battery in a powersports application. If there is a parasitic draw on your powersports vehicle (such as an alarm) we recommend that you disconnect the battery when not in use. If the battery is completely drained the cells can be damaged.

So,could you use that one if you have a radio? And what about the clock on the R*? Would that be a problem?

deadlion has alot of stuff hooked up to his roadie and it dont seam to bother it. but i also think that the ballistic battery takes a special charger/tender being its lithium.

It say's "no special charger needed" IMO if I don't have to change the charging system on my vehicle to run a special battery then I can use any charger I have in the garage. I would think that if you are concerned about a parasitic draw and damaging the battery you could still use a battery maintainer. It says not required , not that you can't use one. They even sell a pigtail to hook up a charger.

i could have sworn deadlion said he had to buy there charger he even made a coment in a recent post that more companies are making chargers for lithium batteries. maybe i need to get in touch with him about it cause i was thinking about getting it and then using the left over battery tray space for a radio amp . deadlion gave me a link to a rockford fosgate amp that is 300/4 (75watts per channel) that is super tiny. like less than 6" long tiny

I'd like to know a little more about the Li=On battery too. I'll do a little research on em. I am going through a battery a year here in Az. Haven't quite figured out why.

I blew right through a Yusa and have now gone over to the Wal Mart battery. It has been working like a charm and was about $60 less than the Yusa.

smokescreens wrote:
[quote]davej wrote:
[quote]smokescreens wrote:
[




i could have sworn deadlion said he had to buy there charger:unsure: he even made a coment in a recent post that more companies are making chargers for lithium batteries. maybe i need to get in touch with him about it cause i was thinking about getting it and then using the left over battery tray space for a radio amp:dry: . deadlion gave me a link to a rockford fosgate amp that is 300/4 (75watts per channel) that is super tiny. like less than 6" long tiny:woohoo:[/quote]

Just go back to the link on pg 1 of this thread and read what it says. If you needed a special charger how would our charging system work without modification? Some of These places will sell you a charger if they can and it might even say it works for a specific kind of battery and it would be true. But what they don't want you to know is that it is not required for a specific battery. If you don't need a special charger for a Ballistic brand Lith battery you don't need one for any brand Lith battery.

smokescreens wrote:
silver_fox wrote:
On a side note... With the ballistic LI-ION battery, there's a note that reads:

*NOTE: Developed as a starter battery in a powersports application. If there is a parasitic draw on your powersports vehicle (such as an alarm) we recommend that you disconnect the battery when not in use. If the battery is completely drained the cells can be damaged.

So,could you use that one if you have a radio? And what about the clock on the R*? Would that be a problem?

deadlion has alot of stuff hooked up to his roadie and it dont seam to bother it. but i also think that the ballistic battery takes a special charger/tender being its lithium.

============

Your right!

I have researched the newer gen AGM/Lith-ion and also the updated from yrs ago dry-cell battery tech too for the R* going to all the battery mfg's websites that mfg those batteries and they have said some std chargers/tenders arent good for thier batteries .

I also went to some of the battery charger/tender sites and they also state certain chargers/tenders are or are not meant for certain type battery tech jiving with what the batt mfg's stated.

So according to the battery & charger/tender mfgs (not me!) there are certain chargers/tenders meant for each type of these batteries.(DONT KILL THE MESSENGER/ME!!/LOL!!!!)

I know the R* is fine for std lead acid maint free batt's or newer gen AGM type you have to activate yourself or M batt's that come activated/sealed & ready to use from the mfg.

So could the R*'s charging system reduce srv'c life of some of the newer gen batteries on the market like the very pricey Lith-Ion or newer design dry-cell batterie's,i don't know.

With that said to avoid any issues & to be safe i will simply follow the batt mfg rec for type tender/charger to use and won't have to worry about it.

But IMHO Deka's 310CCA AGM maint free sealed factory activated ETX20L battery thats been arround for some yrs now with a good track record behind it is the best bang for your buck at $72.99 to your door.

I have that Deka battery in my 06 R* going into it's 4th yr and it still starts the motor fine in 35deg when it still had too heavy for that temp 20w-50 oil in it.

Deka's been mfg batteries for cars/trucks/bikes/const equipment/boats/motorcycles/airplanes/& other powersports too for approx 60yr's so they know a thing or 2 about mfg a decent battery.

Scott

scottw wrote:
[

============

Your right!

I have researched the newer gen AGM/Lith-ion and also the updated from yrs ago dry-cell battery tech too for the R* going to all the battery mfg's websites that mfg those batteries and they have said some std chargers/tenders arent good for thier batteries .

I also went to some of the battery charger/tender sites and they also state certain chargers/tenders are or are not meant for certain type battery tech jiving with what the batt mfg's stated.

So according to the battery & charger/tender mfgs (not me!) there are certain chargers/tenders meant for each type of these batteries.(DONT KILL THE MESSENGER/ME!!/LOL!!!!)

Now if you told me that the charging method recommended by the mfg's for a discharged lith battery is different than for a lead acid battery, I would agree. The charger that they are trying to sell charges in stages, a high rate stage , a med rate stage and tops off with a low rate. Set it and forget it The same thing can be accomplished with a reg battery charger you just need to do it manually. Personally I have never had a real big problem with batteries to get into all the high tech stuff. When my battery finally quits I will replace it with whatever the flavor of the day is and in 4-5 yrs I will replace it again if it needs it.
BTW Has anyone went back to the link posted on the ballistic battery and read it ? I just checked again and it still says "NO SPECIAL CHARGER NEEDED"
http://www.phatperformanceparts.com/Ballistic_Performance_Lithium_Batteries_LI_ION_Po_p/ballistic-performance.h
[

============

Your right!

I have researched the newer gen AGM/Lith-ion and also the updated from yrs ago dry-cell battery tech too for the R* going to all the battery mfg's websites that mfg those batteries and they have said some std chargers/tenders arent good for thier batteries .

I also went to some of the battery charger/tender sites and they also state certain chargers/tenders are or are not meant for certain type battery tech jiving with what the batt mfg's stated.

So according to the battery & charger/tender mfgs (not me!) there are certain chargers/tenders meant for each type of these batteries.(DONT KILL THE MESSENGER/ME!!/LOL!!!!)

Now if you told me that the charging method recommended by the mfg's for a discharged lith battery is different than for a lead acid battery, I would agree. The charger that they are trying to sell charges in stages, a high rate stage , a med rate stage and tops off with a low rate. Set it and forget it The same thing can be accomplished with a reg battery charger you just need to do it manually. Personally I have never had a real big problem with batteries to get into all the high tech stuff. When my battery finally quits I will replace it with whatever the flavor of the day is and in 4-5 yrs I will replace it again if it needs it.
BTW Has anyone went back to the link posted on the ballistic battery and read it ? I just checked again and it still says "NO SPECIAL CHARGER NEEDED"
http://www.phatperformanceparts.com/Ballistic_Performance_Lithium_Batteries_LI_ION_Po_p/ballistic-performance.htm

If my battery tender Junior can't charge it, I don't need it.

This from the Shorai site,5th question down,as you will see it will tell you your junior works.The link to Phat that Davej re-posted is exactly what you will find at the ballistic site. You cannot use a desulfation mode on any lithium battery,Hope this is what you are trying to explain Scottw, Shorai or Ballistic. so you see Ace ( you got a handle on that, jr it's a great charger,) you're safe.

http://www.shoraipower.com/t-faq.aspx
Sulfation takes place from the day the acid is added to the lead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desulfation
Notice the "Key" words here, you can't stop it, and only reverse partially.
As to the charger,this is a long and boring video from the Ballistic site. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_lSfw4q2B0&feature=endscreen&NR=1
On the other hand it does explain why you might want it. Remember as the 2 manufactures explain the batteries come "balanced from the factory". So why re-balance? Our charging systems don't.I see why the Shorai is more expensive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiFePO4 as to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery it will last longer.
In time you will not be able to buy a lead acid battery.You young guys will have to change,
As I said in my last post on this subject, enjoy and read, the lead acid battery is a Dinosaur.Lead is bad,( It's banned in the Great lakes for fishing sinkers) we don't care!Let the kids and Grand Kids worry about cleaning it up OK now tell me why, other than the cost saving,

bill

old dog wrote:
This from the Shorai site,5th question down,as you will see it will tell you your junior works.The link to Phat that Davej re-posted is exactly what you will find at the ballistic site. You cannot use a desulfation mode on any lithium battery,Hope this is what you are trying to explain Scottw, Shorai or Ballistic. so you see Ace ( you got a handle on that, jr it's a great charger,) you're safe.

http://www.shoraipower.com/t-faq.aspx
Sulfation takes place from the day the acid is added to the lead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desulfation
Notice the "Key" words here, you can't stop it, and only reverse partially.
As to the charger,this is a long and boring video from the Ballistic site. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_lSfw4q2B0&feature=endscreen&NR=1
On the other hand it does explain why you might want it. Remember as the 2 manufactures explain the batteries come "balanced from the factory". So why re-balance? Our charging systems don't.I see why the Shorai is more expensive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiFePO4 as to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery it will last longer.
In time you will not be able to buy a lead acid battery.You young guys will have to change,
As I said in my last post on this subject, enjoy and read, the lead acid battery is a Dinosaur.Lead is bad,( It's banned in the Great lakes for fishing sinkers) we don't care!Let the kids and Grand Kids worry about cleaning it up OK now tell me why, other than the cost saving,

bill

==================================================

Well no need to get snotty with this crap like this " you got a handle on that, jr)"

Chk this out directly from the Lith-ion/AGM/Dry Cell batt mfg's when it comes to charging some i think you have already seen but wont hurt to see/read again.

1st) up,lith-ion:

This stamtmenet from the lit-ion batt mfg(Shorai) " you may NOT use a charger/tender if it has an automatic "desulfation mode", which cannot be turned off."Is one of the things i was reffering too because some chargers/tenders mfg today do have this sulfation mode thats damaging to these new gen lith-ion batteries.

So like i said the batt mfg said you really can't use just any charger/tender meaning if it has desulfation mode that some chargeres/tenders have it should not be used.

The lith-ion batt mfg also says " the best possible charger/tender for Shorai LFX is the SHO-BMS01, which will be released on about March 15th 2011. It uses the 5-pin BMS port in the LFX batteries, in order to monitor, diagnose, and balance the individual cells during charge. And it also has an optimized storage mode that will give the longest possible service life to your LFX."

2nd) Now,for AGM batteries,heres what Deka batt mfg had to say about charging AGM batteries.

CHARGING
In the rare occurrence that an AGM battery needs to be
charged outside of the vehicle’s charging system, there are
chargers that can be used.

Many common battery chargers are not fully compatible
with AGM batteries, however; they will not ruin the battery
if used only once or twice over the battery’s lifetime.Adversely, not all chargers are safe and can produce severe battery damage in only a few hours of use.

Now the above statement from the batt mfg " if used only once or twice over the battery’s lifetime" is an important stament that if any std charger/tender is used more then only 1 or 2x over this batteries 4-5-6 yr lifetime it will damage it ,that to me is significant that if you use a std chrger 1-2x you can damage the battery and people need to know this.


3rd),Now for Odyssey dry cell battery from thier site.

There is a lit of charger they have on thier site that are ok BUT basically all Schumacher chargers/tenders mfg today cant be used per this batt mfg and schumacher a mfg a lot of tenders,i have one .

Heres what Odyssey said abou that tender.

This charger/tender not mfg anymore can be used for tricle charging only,SC-2500A
(no longer inproduction)

Battery Mart ACC-1206WB
ONLY for trickle charging PC310 to PC680; DO NOT use for
battery cycling

Then they say.

No other chargers manufactured by Schumacher
have been tested and approved by ODYSSEY

But for all the 7-8 chargers/tenders they rec they have footnotes with all sorts of limitations -settings your to use on the charger & if you dont thier rec charger setting/mode their rec charger /tender could still damage the battery.

So even though your using thier rec charger/tender for thier dry cell batt if you dint set it to proper mode it can still damage the battery if you dont pay attention to these details.

Hers a few examples of those footnotes for eash charger.

* ONLY for trickle charging PC310 to PC680; DO NOT use for
battery cycling

* Set charger on lead acid (flooded) setting

* Only use models with DeltaVolt charge profile; multi-bank
charger outputs may be paralleled for higher amperage when
charging PC1200 or larger batteries

* Set charger switch to position #5

* ONLY for light cycling applications (<40% DOD) PC310 to
PC2150; set mode: 3-stage, battery type: Gel, and battery
temp: warm

Bottom line is the 3-4 newer gen hi tech batteries being mfg'd today do require care when choosing charger/tender to ensure you dont damage the battery as perf the batt mfg's themselves which is what i was refeering too and tried to pass onto all of you here that these hi tech batteries do in fact have specific charging requirements which i copied & pasted from the batt mfg's for you to see that i didnt come up with it out of nowhere.

You can belive the battery mfg's say or not,it's up to you.

Have a good holiday season & New Year.

Scott