Thanks Ted

Hope they build a 2 man raft so I don't have to swim. I'll probably be right behind you. I definetly am learning all over again. I feel like a first time owner. Had a Harley years ago but never worked on it. Other wise I've had smaller (compared to this bike) motors and it's only been the last few years that I got bit by the bug to really do serious work on them myself and modify them myslef. Before that is was ride till they broke and take them in if it was somthing past basic repairs. So after 30 years of riding (Never said I was a fast thinker ) I finally figured out that working on your bike is half the riding experience. I really appreciate the help and patience from you folks. Never say never but I don't think I'll be doing any performance mods. I'm not a speed rider. Just rolling along at 65 or70 is fine with me. I hate freeway riding. Bores the hell out of me. I like the winding back roads where there's something to look at and your not just holding the gas steady and going in a straight line for hours. Not to mention all the killer cagers with their cell phones and Starbucks coffee. I've done the math and I don't think that leaves any hands for steering the car.

Hey Gram

So it sounds like it's more than the simple PMS tweak? It's not that I don't want to do it but the only place I have to work on my bike is the parking lot of my apartment bldg so if I start something I have to finish it before I walk away. Can't leave the bike tore apart. But yeah, It's worth it to me. I want it to run right and I want to learn.

There are a couple of ways you could approach this, but realize that Ted is right when he says that he prefers not to mess with something thats not broken. Since I can't listen to your bike, we both have to hope we mean the same thing by your reference to farting and popping. Ted is also right that these bikes tend to do that at least some. The problem becomes more pronounced with non-stock pipes, and sounds a lot like a diesel does when it turns on its 'jake' brake.

If it were me, I would start by trying to dial in the PMS, per the instructions in our tech tips section under carbs. If that does not eliminate it, then you are lean in the needle circuit (at least too lean for the PMS to compensate). Don't bother trying to go much more than baout 3 1/4 to 3 1/2 turn out on the PMS, thats as much as it can give, any more is wasted turns (and your PMS screw could end up falling out while your driving).

If you find the pms can't compensate, the next thing to try is the WOT test. There is an article here on that too. You need to confirm that the main is the right size before deciding what to do next.

If your main is good (you pass the WOT test), you need to play with the clip setting on the needle to see if you can affect the problem with it. It won't take much if the main is right. What needle do you have? Is it a Baron's, or a Dyno-jet? Also what clip are you on now?

Either way, your probably too close to move your clip a full clip position. The alternative is to add another of the real thin washers between the clip and the slide. You need to move the effective clip position down toward the tip of the needle. You can do this by adding another washer under the clip before putting the needle back into the carb's slide. Be sure to use a washer of the same thickness as the ones that you have now. Those washers are just about 1/2 the thickness of the gap between the clip positions, and you will have moved the needle by that much.

If you do this, you have to baseline the pms again. Just follow the instructions in the 'dialing in your pms' article. Its a pain in the ass, but will provide good balance between the needle circuit and the pilot circuit.

The fact that your hard decels are fine makes me think that the problem is leaness in the needle circuit (butterfly valve open, so more air than the closed throttle position). But you might get lucky and knock it our with your pilot.

Another approach would be to move the pilot up to the next size and try dialing in the pms again (before trying the needle). Next size up is a 37.5 (mikuni) if you are currently using the stock pilot jet.

If your needle is a Baron's and on 3rd or less clip position (from top or blunt end of needle), or a Dyna on third or less, you will most likely need to move the needle. Those clip positions are pretty restrictive and really only useful if your main is too large (to help choke it down).

GRAM<br><br>Post edited by: GRAM, at: 2006/05/23 01:27

Thanks Gram

I should have explained. My bike is 100% stock except for the pipes. I didn't give the particulars of jets size etc because it's stock. Which now that I think about it is a particular. I apologize. I guess I have to learn how to ask question correctly too. What has me confused is the day I put the pipes on there wasn't any problems. It was after I rode it all day yesterday that it showed up. I get the jake brake on a hard decel. I know that sound and I'm OK with that. On a slow decel it's popping and (I guess) small backfires. Not loud but it's there.

Check the muffler clamps and the exhaust nuts for tightness??? I had to
snug mine up after running it initially

Well,

That narrows your options a little, but at least we know that your main is good.

Common wisdom in most Road Star circles as that you don't need to change jetting unless you change both your pipes and your air kit. But I have seen quite a few bikes that changed pipes only, didn't change their jetting, and showed signs of excessive heat in the carbs. Not sure it has any real impact on long term usage, but it was there.

We don't have adjustable coasting enrichers, so your really back to the same options as before. Good news is that the stock PMS setting for 04 and higher was only about 1 1/2 to 2 turns out. That means you should have some room to let it out a little if you want to take that route. The shim trick (extra washer) for the needle would also help, so these two options are still there.

Bad news is that there is absolutely no way for you to adjust the PMS without taking that carb off. To adjust the PMS, you have to remove a brass plug put over it by Yamaha (EPA mandated) that keeps you from adjusting it. The only way to do it is to drill it, then insert a screw into it and use the screw to pull the plug out. The PMS screw is on the back/bottom of the carb, so no real good way to get to it unless you remove it.

In your case, it might be easier to shim the needle. You don't have to remove the carb, just the gas tank off. The top of the carb comes off, and the slide assembly can be removed from the top. Shim the needle, put it back in the slide, put the slide back into the carb, and re-attach the top. It might be just enough to get the job done. If it helps a little, but not enough, you can insert another shim. The stock Yamaha needle is pretty fat, so shimming it should help. Its the only way to adjust the stock needle (only one clip position).

Or.... You could spring for a new air kit (or wait until you can) and give yourself an excuse to rejet altogether.... It makes a nice performance difference when you do both.

One more option, although I don't think it would have a huge effect, would be to put some form of restriction in the pipes. There are a couple of articles in the exhaust section that describe modifying baffles to reduce excessive noise. Both involve additional flow restrictions in the baffle area of the pipes. If you can slow the flow down a little, it just might get you over the hump.

Not a lot of great choices, but at least you have some ways of going after it.

My personal preference would be PMS, then the Needle shim. But considering the amount of work involved for the PMS, you might want to reverse those two.

EDIT NOTE: Pop Rivet has a really good suggestion. If your pipes aren't making a good seal, they can draw in fresh air which can also cause this problem (fresh air + unburned fuel + hot exhaust = new chance to ignite the left over fuel = backfires/popping)

GRAM<br><br>Post edited by: GRAM, at: 2006/05/23 08:14

Musky wrote:
I'm not a speed rider. Just rolling along at 65 or70 is fine with me. I hate freeway riding. Bores the hell out of me. I like the winding back roads where there's something to look at and your not just holding the gas steady and going in a straight line for hours. Not to mention all the killer cagers with their cell phones and Starbucks coffee. I've done the math and I don't think that leaves any hands for steering the car.

Well, I turned 50 on May 14th I can safely say my squidly days are behind me and I agree that I prefer just rolling along and enjoying the scenery. I still have my 1982 GS1100E and if I want to go cut up some asphalt and play the twisties I will fire that up

When I found this board after buying my 05 R* I was all hot to modify everything but the name Now I realize that these bikes run so damn nice basically stock...for my purpose...crusing and touring...that I am veering away from the mods and looking for tweaks...Stage One, new seat...cupholders (just seeing if you're paying attention)...

Like I said to Doc the other day, it's like we are Hannity and Colmes Good luck tweaking your ride!!!

Regards, Ted<br><br>Post edited by: TMK, at: 2006/05/23 08:27

Thanks everyone.

I checked the exhaust. That was my first check, hoping I could get off easy. Yeah right . On my last bike I drilled the back plate, punched the baffles and tweaked the mixture screws so I've done it before including having to drill and pull the little caps. But on that bike the mixture screws were out in front. Easy! On this bike - Just getting to the carb is going to take more time than the whole job on my last bike. Can they put more screws and crap on there just to get to the filter? I might put an air kit on there just so it isn't a half day job changing the filter Talked to the dealer and they insist I need a air kit and jetting. But they want money so I'm giving that it's fair weight. Guess it's time to jump in and just do it. What's the worst that could happen?

Don't answer that.

Gram, I did notice the air cleaner cover was hotter on my leg yesterday. Don't remember that before.<br><br>Post edited by: Musky, at: 2006/05/23 11:01

did you say you removed AIS??

Nope. The only thing I did was take off the old pipes and bolt on the new. I went into this figuring on doing the PMS. Just got fooled by the first day running good. Thought I had snuck by. But it does have me puzzled why it was good the first day.