I'll give the foil a try and see what happens. And what I mean by lean, after a pretty good ride at speeds between 65 & 70 mph I pulled one plug off each jug and they had a very light tint of tan way to light IMO. Thanks for the advice Scottw..

I just got off the phone with a Harley shop near by they ordered a 167.5 mukuni main for me I should get it sometime nest week. Will that fix the problem or will I still have to do some needle adjustments??? And also the way the bike is running now I am getting between 42&44 mpg at between 65&70 mph. What you guys think will that get better????? I'd hate to think that mpg's would drop but like I said before it is running a little to lean and I don't want to end up with a burnt valve on down the road.

Read my earlier post in your thread,it will answer you question on what to adj that should help.

BTW,The main jet affects mostly 3/4 to full/WOT throttle,it's the needle clip adj that affects mainly 1/4-3/4 throttle with slight overlap comming from idle-PMS circut to main cruise and also going into and slightly past 3/4 throttle too.

But in general increasing main jet wont richen up off idle-pms to main cruise circut in carb,you need to adj pms & needle to richen those areas/circuts.

Also,going from stock 165 to 167.5 main jet (which is a very small inc in fuel enrichemnt) with your moded airbox and aftermarket perf pipes will likely not be enough enrichement for 3/4-full throttle operation IMHO.

You need at least 170 main of maybe even a 172.5-175 but 167.5 main jet will likely still be lean at WOT with the mods you have.

Thats why Curt (1 of our resident R* carb experts) & also myslef rec you going to at least a 170 main jet to sart with due to mods your running. If i am not mistaken Curt even said you may need to go 172 or was it 175 main with your setup but to 1st try the 170 main . And remember the main jet has most affect from approx 3/4 thru WOT and not much else like from 0 to almost 3/4 throttle where 98% of most driving/riding is done where the needle clip & PMS adjustment has the most affect.

Good luck.

Scott

davej wrote:
texasscott1 wrote:
The 1600 DJ kit comes with 160, 165, 190 and 195 mains. With his setup I think they recommend a 190 main. I don't know if the needle taper is any different though. Also, with the 1600 kit the pilot jet isn't changed.

A 190 is almost equal to a Mik 180 and that is awfully large for a 1600. That is 8 DJ sizes more than stock. DJ equivalent to the stock mik 165 would be a DJ 176.
Sorry for late reply. I made a mistake - the 190 DJ is intended for stock exhaust and the K&N filter kit #RK-3905. With high flowing exhaust and the same filter the 195 is recommended. For a stock bike the 160 is recommended and for stock airbox and free flowing exhaust the 165 is recommended. With the stage 1 (160 and 165 jets) the needle is in the 3rd groove with the PMS at 3 1/2 turns. With stage 2 (190 and 195 jets) the needle is in the 4th groove with the PMS at 3 1/2 turns.

The part number for the 1600 needle is DNO977.

Rev. wrote:
I'll give the foil a try and see what happens. And what I mean by lean, after a pretty good ride at speeds between 65 & 70 mph I pulled one plug off each jug and they had a very light tint of tan way to light IMO. Thanks for the advice Scottw..
If you had any color at all on the insulators you're okay. Here's an article from someone who really knew:

http://www.strappe.com/plugs.html

No disrespect intended (esp with all the great help/info you give us at times with your wrenching exp too!) but having a touch of color on plugs in this case doesnt mean it's likely ok & not running a bit lean.

Todays unleaded ethnol'd pump fuel doesnt color the plugs like leaded fuel of 40 yrs ago did which the link /info you posted should show ,that info may also show where you can see if total timing is correct too depending on where you see that marking on ground straps on the plugs . That would be helfull for for people running dyna3000 ign module with an adjustable timing curve for those that wold care to check that.

Anyway,I say that i think his motor is likely running at least a bit lean is because you may have missed when the original poster of this thread said his bike has stock carb setup with 165 main jet & non adj needle with aftermarket pipes with NO BAFFLES / running wide open pipes along with lrg holes (5 1" holes?) drilled in the stock airbox for better breathing both of which can collectively make the R* run lean epsecially with a stock carb calibration with it's 165 main jet & stock non adj needle he's running.

We often see here in RSC when just drilling holes in airbox make them run a tad lean lean enough in some cases to require a little carb tweak of PMS to fatten it up a bit @ idle & or at transition from idle to cruise circut,etc.

Then add the aftermarket pipes he's running with no baffles (wide open pipes) to the mix and there is no way its not going to be running at least somewhat lean esp at cruise & WOT with a basically stock carb setup with the 2 mods he's done that we know can lean things out a bit.

But thats unless maybe he's mistaken about what main jet & type needle he has in the carb and it turns out to not be a stock OEM carb calibration setup thats in fact a richer fuel calibration setup then what we led to think it was which would be a diff story but dont think thats whats going on here.

Just my $02 on that one.

Scott

Rev. wrote:
I'll give the foil a try and see what happens. And what I mean by lean, after a pretty good ride at speeds between 65 & 70 mph I pulled one plug off each jug and they had a very light tint of tan way to light IMO. Thanks for the advice Scottw..

NP,hope it helped & let us know what adj you decide to make to the carbs fuel calibration & how the motor responds to those changes.

Scott

Over those years I've noticed that new plugs color the same whether they are exposed to leaded or unleaded gasoline. The big difference was that in a short amount of time, usually 12,000 miles, the plugs run with leaded gasoline would become lead fouled and no longer fire consistently.

Nowadays, the plugs I see removed from the new cars are white and even the plugs from my bike will stay white for a long time. I've removed white plugs from a car I had after 60k miles. They are eventually stained though from impurities in the fuel. Usually when checking I'll see a black streak on the insulator from the accelerator pump. It's near impossible to get my bike in its parking spot without gunning the engine once or twice.

It's interesting to note that the HSR carbs will run fine without a main jet, that is until the slide is raised to the point where the main jet would be more restrictive than the needle. Not possible with the CV carb though. Even though it will start and idle and even take a very small amount of throttle with the slide removed.

The DJ setups are for increased maximum power and their graphs show just that. So they must have something right. Another thing I noticed is that at certain points the stock needle is actually smaller around than the DJ needle. That was a surprise.

As for running lean at cruise with wide open pipes, believe it or not, at cruise speeds it is entirely possible that the stock pipes with the crossover are moving exhaust more efficiently than wide open pipes, especially without baffles.

All of the dyno runs I see posted here are at full throttle max power. It would be interesting to see some on a power absorbing (eddy current) dyno showing mixture results at cruising speeds. It seems to me that if the light load cruise mixture is as close to 14.7 as possible then the needle taper and lastly the main can be sized for heavier loads.

It's well known that maximum power is achieved when all of the fuel is burned during combustion but with an air cooled engine that's such a fine line that it's best to adjust full throttle a little rich.

Sorry for rambling on.

i have a stock air box and a 165 jet and str8 pipes i put a 170 jet in it would cut out on me so i put the 165 in run alot better

scottw wrote:
No disrespect intended (esp with all the great help/info you give us at times with your wrenching exp too!) but having a touch of color on plugs in this case doesnt mean it's likely ok & not running a bit lean.

Todays unleaded ethnol'd pump fuel doesnt color the plugs like leaded fuel of 40 yrs ago did which the link /info you posted should show ,that info may also show where you can see if total timing is correct too depending on where you see that marking on ground straps on the plugs . That would be helfull for for people running dyna3000 ign module with an adjustable timing curve for those that wold care to check that.

Anyway,I say that i think his motor is likely running at least a bit lean is because you may have missed when the original poster of this thread said his bike has stock carb setup with 165 main jet & non adj needle with aftermarket pipes with NO BAFFLES / running wide open pipes along with lrg holes (5 1" holes?) drilled in the stock airbox for better breathing both of which can collectively make the R* run lean epsecially with a stock carb calibration with it's 165 main jet & stock non adj needle he's running.

We often see here in RSC when just drilling holes in airbox make them run a tad lean lean enough in some cases to require a little carb tweak of PMS to fatten it up a bit @ idle & or at transition from idle to cruise circut,etc.

Then add the aftermarket pipes he's running with no baffles (wide open pipes) to the mix and there is no way its not going to be running at least somewhat lean esp at cruise & WOT with a basically stock carb setup with the 2 mods he's done that we know can lean things out a bit.

But thats unless maybe he's mistaken about what main jet & type needle he has in the carb and it turns out to not be a stock OEM carb calibration setup thats in fact a richer fuel calibration setup then what we led to think it was which would be a diff story but dont think thats whats going on here.

Just my $02 on that one.

Scott

My wrenching capabilities are fair. I starting wrenching on cars and motorcycles at a very young age I've always done my own work. I've never been any good with carbs. There is no mistake about the about the main mukuni 165 and stock needle. When I purchased this bike a few years ago it was in bad shape it was tore down in nothing but pieces. The carb espcially was in bad shape from sitting out in the weather for a few years I had to replace the TPS because it had went bad rain, mud and snow took care of it. I want to thank everyone for their input. I will be getting back into the carb when the 167.5 arrives hopeful that will be in the next couple of days.