I'm not trying to change opinions, just adding mine to the mix.

jd750ace wrote:
I say fire them too, but the teacher's union says they meet the minimum standard set by the state since they
"promote" the proper percentage of students every year, and they spend 6 weeks before standardized tests cramming the material to slew the results.
It's a crap system, and even as good as our school system has been, if Texas passed a voucher system, I would be looking into private institutions in a heartbeat. As it is, I can't afford to pony up $2600 bucks a year to a school that my son does not attend, and another 5-7K a year to a private school.

Seems the whole system promotes the minimum. I happen to like math, but I hated math class. Going over the same thing over & over & over, just for the ones who didn't get it or didn't care to. Let's move on & learn something new, geez! Thinking needs to be taught, not uselees facts that are half lies.

Actually, Thom, I wasn't responding to you as generalizing. It was Skwear and Tim who I thought were doing that. I was curious, though about the source of your article. I had never seen anything like that before.

SKWEARpeg wrote:
churchdog wrote:

I disagree with your generalization. I'm married to a teacher and count a dozen more as close, personal friends. I'm in a small, rural community, but we have an excellent school district and I regularly contract labor with them, and I have found the administration (and school board) to be top-notch people who do good things with thin budgets and limited staff. Our principals and superintendant agonize over apathetic parents, students who cannot meet the minimum standards, truancy and impoverished families. I have known many teachers who bring food and clothing from their own homes for their students. Their history, math and science teachers are also their neighbors, coaches, and their parent's friends. All my children have worked summer jobs alongside their teachers who are trying to make ends meet by farming, clerking, mowing lawns or painting houses. Some teachers don't seem to care beyond their paycheck, but many teachers today are quite committed to children and education, just as they were 30 or 40 years ago when I was in school.

It may be a generalization, but I also think you and yours(as with many rural schools systems in many states)would be the exception. This wasn't an attack on 'good' teachers. "Good" teachers will always have a job. In a private system, they'd be worth a premium.
If parents where having to make decisions based on where they were spending their education dollars, instead of having it lumped into
this or that tax, they might pay a bit closer attention to what they were getting for their money. The current system breeds indifference, and the "day care" attitude exhibited by to many parents.
If tax dollars didn't have to get sifted through umpteen hands were everybody gets a piece, before it got to the teachers and students it was aimed at, there would probably be more money where it was needed, then in some bureaucracy in Washington or elsewhere.

Churchdogs situation is the exception. I have helped start 5 charter schools. I have looked at the system, been involved with the system and now work against the system (not schools...the system). All five of the charter schools I have helped start have been operational for over 8 years, are all award earning, and their students are rated at the top of the state in all scoring. Why is this you ask...because the teachers are not unionized, the school staff answers to the school parents and not the school board and teachers are EXPECTED and required to teach kids at a higher level. If the teachers can't produce they are replaced. The parents are required to put a minimum amount of time into the school through volunteering and also sign a contract stating that they and their kids will put in a minimum amount of time doing school work outside of the class. Learning is not a 8:00 to 3:00 activity it is life long and does not keep specific hours. Some of us and other have to put more time in than others to meet these goals and requirements, other do no not. That's Life!

Now some would call this unfair but, what is unfair is when you have parents and kids that don't care and hurt the learning opportunities of those that do want to learn and succeed and not just have child care provided. The current public education system is broke and it does not matter what little pockets of excellence you may find in it, overall IT IS BROKE and it needs fixed and the only way to do that is to get government and unions out of the system. Only then will it have a chance of repairing itself and producing the type of education that will help our kids succeed. Get out of the way of good teachers and get rid of the rest...and BTW, pay the good ones a good wage because they more than deserve it.

You many now have your soapbox back...

Wow!

I just moved my kids out of MI to FL to get them out of a high school that, no matter the teaching staff, is plain old bad. Guns, weapons, belligerent idiots disrupting class that don't get kicked out because why??? Gangsta's abound. Nearly 3/4 of the Teachers in the school my kids will be attending have masters or higher, they don't get paid an extraordinary salary but do a damned good job with the kids, and there is no riff-raff allowed.

I have friends and relatives who teach. Nothing surprises me given the stories I hear. I wouldn't teach for the pay some of them receive no way, I'd rather bust my ass doing real work than lose my mind - some put up with a lot of crap from the students/parents and have no recourse, they wind up being the ones blamed for a failed system.

I'm sure there are lazy teachers just like the lazy asses in every other job there is, it seems to be the America of today. Not everybody is a star though. Some people never aim to succeed or better themselves in any way, but they get by, again, the American way. Slackers never pull their own load. Minimum requirements are just that, we live in a system of minimums.

This country is so jacked up when it comes to education it's a joke. Secondary education is hardly attainable by the masses. Too bad we can spend money on all kinds of crap we don't really need but can't put the money out for our kids, our future.

End rant/

churchdog wrote:
Actually, Thom, I wasn't responding to you as generalizing. It was Skwear and Tim who I thought were doing that. I was curious, though about the source of your article. I had never seen anything like that before.
I didn't think you where churchdog, so no harm there
Here's a couple links for you on what our educational system is based on.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-prussian-education-system.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system
I should of put this link in my original quote.
http://blogzooka.wordpress.com/2011/10/20/the-prussian-german-educational-system/