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Re:normal MPG is there such a thing?
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TOPIC: Re:normal MPG is there such a thing?
#1007739
billklineiii (User)
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Re:normal MPG is there such a thing? 1 Week, 4 Days ago  
Hello Guys and Gals
I have not been on here for a good while now but this is the best forum by far for reliable info. Thanks so much. I hope that some of you can provide some basic guidance for me. I have all of the following - exactly:
From the DynoJet 4176 kit ..
I have main jets marked DJ165, DJ175, DJ190, DJ195, DJ210 still sealed in pkg
DJ 170 is missing from the kit
I have 1 loose jet marked R 182.5 and the head and threads are much larger OD than all the rest of the pkgd jets.
I have 1 silver needle w/ taper seat @ 1 end, groove @ opposite end marked 6HDC26
I have 1 slotted head brass part marked 35 it is 1" long
SKWEARpeg said the following:
What you have,is a DJ jetting kit, and the OEM parts from the carb. I agree.
The 182.5, is a stock Mikuni mani jet for a 1700 Roadie. The square in a square and the R, is the Mikuni trademark.
The 35, is the stock Roadie Pilot
The fat single groove needle, is the stock needle.

My bike is a 2004 Roadstar Silverado. Everything is stock - pipes, mufflers and air box. I am basically happy with all this. The bike starts fine, idles fine. Seems to have plenty of power but I dont have another Roadstar to compare it to, but it is plenty for this 67 year old guy.

Now for my problem and request for suggested changes. When I stop the bike and shut down, there is a strong gas smell. I think it is coming from the exhaust, but I am not sure of this. It is pretty obnoxious, especially when I park it in the garage. I think the bike is running rich. I am looking for suggestions:
What should I change first?
It has the DJ170 in it now. Should I go down to the DJ165?
I assume that the Dynojet needle is on groove #4, cause that is what the instructions say and I guess the mechanic that did this followed this instruction along with all the stock spacers as also specified in the instructions. Should I change Dynojet needle is to a different groove - like maybe #3?

Any other suggestions are for sure welcome. Please....
I have not taken any of this apart yet but feel pretty comfortable with doing this - I have read and printed all the guidelines on removing tank; removing carb, etc. But suggestions are welcome here too.

Thanks in advance to your suggestions and guidance. Also, I live in Ball Ground, GA - Cherokee Co, GA. If any of you folks live near, it would be great to meet up sometime.

Bill Kline
 
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#1007783
gold03 (User)
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Re:normal MPG is there such a thing? 1 Week, 3 Days ago  
A bit more info would help. Does it smell like fuel when it is running? Or, does the smell of fuel start after you shut it off? What is your current cruising mileage?

If the float is set a little high it is easy for the stock carb to percolate a little and push out fuel as the carb gets hot when you shut it off. The engine heat can soak into the carb causing the fuel to percolate.
 
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#1007784
SKWEARpeg (User)
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Re:normal MPG is there such a thing? 1 Week, 3 Days ago  
billklineiii wrote:
Hello Guys and Gals
I have not been on here for a good while now but this is the best forum by far for reliable info. Thanks so much. I hope that some of you can provide some basic guidance for me. I have all of the following - exactly:
From the DynoJet 4176 kit ..
I have main jets marked DJ165, DJ175, DJ190, DJ195, DJ210 still sealed in pkg
DJ 170 is missing from the kit
I have 1 loose jet marked R 182.5 and the head and threads are much larger OD than all the rest of the pkgd jets.
I have 1 silver needle w/ taper seat @ 1 end, groove @ opposite end marked 6HDC26
I have 1 slotted head brass part marked 35 it is 1" long
SKWEARpeg said the following:
What you have,is a DJ jetting kit, and the OEM parts from the carb. I agree.
The 182.5, is a stock Mikuni mani jet for a 1700 Roadie. The square in a square and the R, is the Mikuni trademark.
The 35, is the stock Roadie Pilot
The fat single groove needle, is the stock needle.

My bike is a 2004 Roadstar Silverado. Everything is stock - pipes, mufflers and air box. I am basically happy with all this. The bike starts fine, idles fine. Seems to have plenty of power but I dont have another Roadstar to compare it to, but it is plenty for this 67 year old guy.

Now for my problem and request for suggested changes. When I stop the bike and shut down, there is a strong gas smell. I think it is coming from the exhaust, but I am not sure of this. It is pretty obnoxious, especially when I park it in the garage. I think the bike is running rich. I am looking for suggestions:
What should I change first?
It has the DJ170 in it now. Should I go down to the DJ165?
I assume that the Dynojet needle is on groove #4, cause that is what the instructions say and I guess the mechanic that did this followed this instruction along with all the stock spacers as also specified in the instructions. Should I change Dynojet needle is to a different groove - like maybe #3?

Any other suggestions are for sure welcome. Please....
I have not taken any of this apart yet but feel pretty comfortable with doing this - I have read and printed all the guidelines on removing tank; removing carb, etc. But suggestions are welcome here too.

Thanks in advance to your suggestions and guidance. Also, I live in Ball Ground, GA - Cherokee Co, GA. If any of you folks live near, it would be great to meet up sometime.

Bill Kline


The tank vent runs below the bike. When you turn the bike off, you can look underneath and see the fumes coming out of the end....unless you have a stock Kalifornia model.
When you return from a ride and park the bike in the garage, the heat will cause fumes to leave via the vent line, and you will also have some gassing off via the carb bowl vent.

Try leaving the bike outside for 30 min to an hour so it cools off, before putting it in the garage.

If you're getting fuel in the air box, it could be a leaking needle and seat.


Have you ever checked your fuel mileage over 3 or 4 tanks of gas, to help get a better average. The 170dj, is way leaner then the stock 182.5Mikuni. Way leaner, as in its even leaner then a 165 Mikuni.
 
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Last Edit: 2017/04/17 11:39 By SKWEARpeg.
 
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#1007863
billklineiii (User)
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Re:normal MPG is there such a thing? 1 Week, 3 Days ago  
Thanks for the reply...
Does it smell like fuel when it is running? No, not at all, only after I stop and turn it off.

What is your current cruising mileage? I currently get 36 to 38 mpg. I was getting 42 or so before the re jetting. However before re jetting, the bike surged at lower rpm - seems like it was mostly in 2 and 3rd gears around 2000 to 2500 rpm's. Didnt idle very well either. Now after the re jetting, it runs good but the gas smell after stopping and turning it off is not good. Folks smell it outside when I park in a parking lot even. thanks for your help.
 
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#1007881
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Re:normal MPG is there such a thing? 1 Week, 3 Days ago  
36 to 38 is about normal, when mixing in a few cold starts, and stop and go traffic. Your best mileage, will be with no cold starts, speeds below 75 or better yet 70(Yammie test around 65), and continuos operation using the fuel and mileage across several tanks of gas.

Just a side note. If your to lean in the Pilot, you'll be bumping into the main sooner looking for the fuel to stay at cruise speeds above 65 to 70. Once you start bumping into the main, your mileage will suffer.


I'm guessing the gas smell your noticing in the parking lot, is carb puke. The gas boils in the carb and lines, and pushes past the needle and seat flooding the catb slightly and probably even ending up soaking the filter. It can get bad enough at times, to actually cause the bike to flood and making starting difficult. Its a common problem with these bikes in stock configuration, and is exacerbated by the ethanol in the fuel which has a lower boiling point. Turn the petcock off about 30 seconds before turning the key off next time. That should help some. Don't forget to turn it back on, before pulling away.
 
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billklineiii (User)
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Re:normal MPG is there such a thing? 1 Week ago  
Thanks especially to you SKWEARpeg. Your comments and suggestions are very helpful.
So I spent many hours reading posts on this forum about carb puke. I had heard about this before but had not studied the comments and suggestions here. Man o man... there are lots of ideas and suggestions for fixing this. Not sure that I am ready to take the fuel pump out yet, but will listen to the advice from you and others here on the forum. Turning the petcock off is a good idea; I will try that. But would be nice to find a fix. I will also start running non ethanol gas and see if that helps.
I think that maybe I will do the following - let me know comments/suggestions - take the carb off and check float bowl needle and seat. Look to see if this looks compromised. Also, should I check and try to adjust the tab on the float bowl? It could be that it is out of adjustment and needs to close at a lower float level.... but I have heard this can be pretty tricky?
I will check the air filter and air box for signs of this puking problem.
And last but not least, sounds like the re jetting that I had done is not the problem. However, what is weird is that I never had a gas smell before I had the carb cleaned and re jetted by the local mechanic (I think he is pretty good... 35 years experience with the same shop).... but something else could have happened during the cleaning/jetting.

One last clarification please. SKWEARpeg - you said the following:
Just a side note. If your to lean in the Pilot, you'll be bumping into the main sooner looking for the fuel to stay at cruise speeds above 65 to 70. Once you start bumping into the main, your mileage will suffer. So are you suggesting that I go back to the stock "35" pilot jet but leave the DJ 170 main jet as is?

Update: I put non ethanol gas in and have driven about 80 miles or so. I am turning off the petcock about 1/2 mile before I stop. May be helping but I still smell gas after the bike sits for a minute or so. One key observation is the tank vent that you mention that runs below the bike - yes, I see fumes coming out of the end. Is this from pressure build up in the gas tank due to heat from the engine? Anyway to remedy this?

You mention gassing off via the carb bowl vent. Where is this vemt hose? Any way to remedy this?

Just for clarification; What is the key way to tell if I have a leaking needle and seat? Is it the presence of fuel in the air box?

Sorry to be so long with this post, but you are sure helping me out with this troubleshooting. Thanks so much again.
 
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#1008278
SKWEARpeg (User)
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Re:normal MPG is there such a thing? 1 Week ago  
billklineiii wrote:
Thanks especially to you SKWEARpeg. Your comments and suggestions are very helpful.
So I spent many hours reading posts on this forum about carb puke. I had heard about this before but had not studied the comments and suggestions here. Man o man... there are lots of ideas and suggestions for fixing this. Not sure that I am ready to take the fuel pump out yet, but will listen to the advice from you and others here on the forum. Turning the petcock off is a good idea; I will try that. But would be nice to find a fix. I will also start running non ethanol gas and see if that helps.
I think that maybe I will do the following - let me know comments/suggestions - take the carb off and check float bowl needle and seat. Look to see if this looks compromised. Also, should I check and try to adjust the tab on the float bowl? It could be that it is out of adjustment and needs to close at a lower float level.... but I have heard this can be pretty tricky?
I will check the air filter and air box for signs of this puking problem.
And last but not least, sounds like the re jetting that I had done is not the problem. However, what is weird is that I never had a gas smell before I had the carb cleaned and re jetted by the local mechanic (I think he is pretty good... 35 years experience with the same shop).... but something else could have happened during the cleaning/jetting.

One last clarification please. SKWEARpeg - you said the following:
Just a side note. If your to lean in the Pilot, you'll be bumping into the main sooner looking for the fuel to stay at cruise speeds above 65 to 70. Once you start bumping into the main, your mileage will suffer. So are you suggesting that I go back to the stock "35" pilot jet but leave the DJ 170 main jet as is?

Update: I put non ethanol gas in and have driven about 80 miles or so. I am turning off the petcock about 1/2 mile before I stop. May be helping but I still smell gas after the bike sits for a minute or so. One key observation is the tank vent that you mention that runs below the bike - yes, I see fumes coming out of the end. Is this from pressure build up in the gas tank due to heat from the engine? Anyway to remedy this?

You mention gassing off via the carb bowl vent. Where is this vemt hose? Any way to remedy this?

Just for clarification; What is the key way to tell if I have a leaking needle and seat? Is it the presence of fuel in the air box?

Sorry to be so long with this post, but you are sure helping me out with this troubleshooting. Thanks so much again.



There's no difference between the Mikuni 35 Pilot, and the DJ37, as far as flow rate goes. You gained zip, by putting the DJ Pilot in. Well, that's not exactly correct. You did gain some experience.
The DJ170, is somewhere in the neighborhood of a 159 Mikuni main. The stock main for a 1600, is a 165Mikuni.

You thought your mileage was suffering. I was just pointing out if your lean in the Pilot, it can actually hurt your mileage, not help it. Its seems contradictoary, but it is what can happen. This is mostly just a FYI

The tank has to breathe. That is what the tank vent line does. It allows air to enter the tank as fuel leaves, so there isn't a vacuum. It also allows the fumes in the tank(pressure)to be released. Have you seen a plastic gas can that has been left in the sun, and the spout and vent are capped? it buldges from the liquid turning to vapor in the can. That same sort of thing happens in your tank when the bike stops moving, and the engine heat rises around the tank. The gas fumes in the tank, leave via the vent line.

Remove the stock airbox, and there should still be two lines connected to the back of it. A large diameter hose that runs to the front elbow on top of the rear valve cover, and a smaller hose that comes off the top corner of the carb and fits on a metal piece on the back of the airbox.You can run that smaller hose below the bike, you just have to take the short piece for a sample and buy a long enough piece to get below the bike.

The way people generally tell if the needle and seat is leaking, is their mileage starts going down hill for no apparent reason, until the bike won't even run. The pump will continuously push fuel into the bowl and flood the bike. If it's still the stock needle and seat, then it's 13 years old. It's past due.
Also, if you remove the air filter, and it is gas soaked, it may be a sign. The last, is when it gets bad enough so the bike won't run.

Don't just arbritarily start messing with the float height in the carb. Check it using the Yamaha method before you mess with it. See if it is set properly. It should be about 4mm above the bowl to carb mating surface. The bike needs to be standing up, not leaning on the side stand when you check it. You will be checking it on the manifold side of the carb, not right in front where it would be so easy. Put a clear poly tube on the bowl drain , and open the bowl drain and the hose will fill with fuel to the level inside the bowl, like using a water level.
If its a wee bit high, I would carefully change the needle and seat(it comes as a set, with a new oring on the seat half), and try it again. If its still showing high, then I would tweak it a bit until its correct. It may be slightly high, if the needle and seat is indeed leaking.


You can remedy the fumes coming out of the tank vent line, by not riding the bike and keeping it away from heat sources like the sun. Install a smog system on the bike like the california bikes were/are set up with.

If it was me, I'd change the needle and seat if its 13 years old, and see what happens. Then go from there. Check the float level at the same time.
 
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Last Edit: 2017/04/20 20:57 By SKWEARpeg.
 
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