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Re:Lets start an oil war!!!!
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TOPIC: Re:Lets start an oil war!!!!
#1018073
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Lets start an oil war!!!! 4 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
Ran across this article and found it very interesting. As a former truck fleet manager we used to do oil analysis continually and I highly value the testers opinion (they were always right).
Its interesting that they talk about the Subaru 2.5 engine as I have one (2016 Forester). It had some issues with oil usage (since cured) which is probably why they had so much data on it. Whats really interesting is that the US spec engine calls for 0-20 synthetic yet almost all the samples were for 5-30 synthetic which is what the whole rest of the world uses (as do I. Subaru went to 0-20 here in US to try to eke out higher mileage).
As for me I use Mobil 1 synthetic in my Roadie primarily for its ability to cut heat more than wear. Read on and dont flame my ass ....I'm providing info:

http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/why-expensive-oil-is-a-waste-of-money-1797241527
 
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#1018075
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Re:Lets start an oil war!!!! 4 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
After reading a bunch of the oil threads, this is what I learned...

The oil doesn't matter if you change it yearly or every 3000-5000 miles as long as the ZDDP content is high enough for the wet clutch.

Mobil 1 10w-40T for motorcycles fits the bill as well as many others, but synthetics don't seem to break down as quickly if left in longer so that is my choice. With a M110 filter.
 
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#1018083
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Re:Lets start an oil war!!!! 4 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
Amsoil seemed to do pretty well

So basically a negligible difference across the board in modern engines (I wouldn't really consider the Roadstar engine to be modern with its flat tappet deal).

I still run Amsoil in everything now. It definitely made the bikes shift smoother. Not sure what it does in my truck but it can't hurt. Pretty sure twin turbos can generate a fair amount of heat when towing 10klbs+ trailers so it makes me feel warm and fuzzy in my bed at night (the whiskey helps too ).
 
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#1018091
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Re:Lets start an oil war!!!! 4 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
Rotella T5 20-50
Napa Gold 1358
Works perfectly fine for me
 
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#1018108
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Re:Lets start an oil war!!!! 4 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
MaiRoadie wrote:
After reading a bunch of the oil threads, this is what I learned...

The oil doesn't matter if you change it yearly or every 3000-5000 miles as long as the ZDDP content is high enough for the wet clutch.


Actually, the higher ZDDP levels needed in the Road Star leave a sacrificial coating on cam lobes and tappets to curb wear.

https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/classic-and-vintage/articles/reduced-zddp-and-wear-protection/

But, it isn't needed for wet clutches.

Now, here comes the $64,000 question.

In '08, Road Star went FI with catalytic mufflers. High levels of ZDDP is bad for the cats and O2 sensors. Probably the reason they dropped the rev limiter back down to 4,250 RPM so as to reduce the stress in a flat tappet cam, and keep the ZDDP levels in check. Yamalube oils are way below, what I consider sufficient ZDDP levels for our engine.

How does one protect the valve train without messing up the the O2s and cats on a FI bike?

Can't have your cake and eat it, too.

Texas Scott 1. Any thoughts?
 
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Last Edit: 2017/07/26 18:05 By BikerRon.
 



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#1018109
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Re:Lets start an oil war!!!! 4 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
For quite a while now my understanding has been the modern additive package in oil wears out faster than the oil itself.

Maybe I am misguided?

With that being said I am happy with the Mobil 1 V Twin 20W-50 and stock Yamaha OEM filter that I choose to run in my bike. Temps with the humidity heat index can get pretty sporty around here in the summer months.

Staying ahead of the preventative maintenance curve rather than falling behind it works well if you ask me
 
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#1018118
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Re:Lets start an oil war!!!! 4 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
BikerRon wrote:
MaiRoadie wrote:
After reading a bunch of the oil threads, this is what I learned...

The oil doesn't matter if you change it yearly or every 3000-5000 miles as long as the ZDDP content is high enough for the wet clutch.


Actually, the higher ZDDP levels needed in the Road Star leave a sacrificial coating on cam lobes and tappets to curb wear.

https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/classic-and-vintage/articles/reduced-zddp-and-wear-protection/

But, it isn't needed for wet clutches.

Now, here comes the $64,000 question.

In '08, Road Star went FI with catalytic mufflers. High levels of ZDDP is bad for the cats and O2 sensors. Probably the reason they dropped the rev limiter back down to 4,250 RPM so as to reduce the stress in a flat tappet cam, and keep the ZDDP levels in check. Yamalube oils are way below, what I consider sufficient ZDDP levels for our engine.

How does one protect the valve train without messing up the the O2s and cats on a FI bike?

Can't have your cake and eat it, too.

Texas Scott 1. Any thoughts?


I rode the piss out of mine for 34k ish miles running Amsoil almost the whole time. 1 or 2 with Mobil 1. I know that's not a ton of miles but a lot of time was spent in upper RPM ranges (relatively speaking). I never had an issue with O2 sensors. Bike got rid of stock exhaust when it had 18 miles on it (because I lived 18 miles from the dealership ). As a matter of fact, that bike had zero problems that weren't self inflicted by me (mods that I did that failed).
 
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#1018123
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Re:Lets start an oil war!!!! 4 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
My thought is that Yamaha wouldn't use Yamalube if it was going to cause damage to the cams. Also with a total of 5 years with the YES warranty a lot of miles can be racked up during that time. Remember, for high ZDDP levels to damage the cats the engine would have to be burning oil which it does with the crankcase vent. A good reason to mount the crankcase vent externally if an oil with high levels is going to be used.

Also, extended drain intervals with some of the synthetics could cause a problem with warranty coverage. I remember when Mobile 1 advertised 25,000 mile oil changes. Chevrolet was ok with that as long as the filter was changed at the recommended intervals which negated any savings from the extended drain interval.

Personally I like to stay with manufacturers products for my vehicles - Motorcraft for the Ford and Yamalube for the Road Star.
 
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#1018132
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Re:Lets start an oil war!!!! 4 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
texasscott1 wrote:
My thought is that Yamaha wouldn't use Yamalube if it was going to cause damage to the cams. Also with a total of 5 years with the YES warranty a lot of miles can be racked up during that time. Remember, for high ZDDP levels to damage the cats the engine would have to be burning oil which it does with the crankcase vent. A good reason to mount the crankcase vent externally if an oil with high levels is going to be used.

Also, extended drain intervals with some of the synthetics could cause a problem with warranty coverage. I remember when Mobile 1 advertised 25,000 mile oil changes. Chevrolet was ok with that as long as the filter was changed at the recommended intervals which negated any savings from the extended drain interval.

Personally I like to stay with manufacturers products for my vehicles - Motorcraft for the Ford and Yamalube for the Road Star.

+1
Motorcraft for the Ford and Yamalube for the Road Star.
 
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#1018137
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Re:Lets start an oil war!!!! 4 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
Not taking a swipe at anyone, so, please, no one take offense. The oil additive package fails long before the oil itself. A qt of oil is upwards of 1/3 additive package.

The hardest part of our engines, on the oil, is the forces between the gear faces in our transmissions. A synthetic is not truly man-made, as the word synthetic would suggest, but it means that engineers were able to separate out the longer, and more closely identical shaped molecule chains that slide better over one another, giving the synthetic better lubricity.

The forces between the gear faces in our transmissions, since they share the engine oil, is capable of tearing up those long chains... and can cause the oil to breakdown. The solution is to change it according to the manufacturers recommended mileage, which from the owners manual, is 4,000 miles.

I have 3 R* and run the Amsoil 10w-40 for Jap bikes with the Bosch 3323 filter. Since I don't put 4k miles on any one of my bikes in a riding season, I just change it all out every spring. For about 1/2 the cost, I could switch over to the Rotella T-6, but we still have that old Amsoil white paper on an independent lab running the oil industry standardized testing for all the many different ways oil is supposed to serve our engines, and those tests revealed significant differences in the performances of all the oils they tested, and the Amsoil came in first, followed rather closely by the Mobil 1. Others fared considerably worse, and the Rotella, not being a bike oil, wasn't included in the test at all.

Our bikes are very important to us. It's one of my main interests and hobbies. Since the oil is the very life-blood of our engines, I just can't bring myself to cheap out on the engine oil for any reason... it's not worth a few bucks to me to place my babies at any extra risk for all that they mean, and do, for me. Heck, I could probably switch to Rotella T-4 dino, and wouldn't do them any harm... but, to save a few dollars over the span of 7 months out of the year?

Knowing I've done all that I could to take the best care of my bikes means more to me than the amount I could save.
 
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Last Edit: 2017/07/27 06:22 By Questcap.
 
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