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TOPIC: Re:Firing on one cylinder
#1022132
Paladin (User)
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 1 Month, 1 Week ago  
OK, thanks! I had looked at those designations but I guess I didn't read the descriptions well enough. I thought the LT was "Light" oil because it was in the shape of an old school oil can. I'll go back through and look everything over again. I don't even own red Loctite - always been told never to use it on anything .
 
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#1022273
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 1 Month ago  
I was trying not to ask more questions but since this is the first time I've ever pumped up lifters, I've got to ask. Per the service manual I've immersed them in Kerosene. Of course it also says not to pump them too much, but i don't know how much is too much. I got a wooden dowel the same size as the pushrods and have been pumping on them by hand. At first they pushed down quite a bit, maybe 3/8" or so. I pumped them each maybe 10-12 times. Now they're at a point where they push down maybe 1/8". In comparison, I can't push my old lifters down at all. My question is, how much should I be able to pump the new ones when they're done? Is it safe to assume they should move a little bit to cushion the pushrods?
 
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Last Edit: 2017/09/15 19:39 By Paladin.
 
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#1022275
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 1 Month ago  
Got a question on the cams I bought too. They're the correct part number according to the parts charts. The rear camshaft (the one with the threaded end on it) has two gears mounted on it (one light colored and one dark colored)and they appear to have a different number of teeth on them. If you start at a point where the teeth of the two gears are lined up and as you follow them around they gradually start to not line up with each other. Eventually the black gear has teeth that are about halfway between the light gear teeth. Then of course as you follow it on around they gradually get to the point where they line up again. Is that right? (hope that makes sense, I don't think of any other way to describe it) The drawing in the service manual appears to have two gears on it but in the drawing they look like the teeth line up.
 
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#1022277
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 1 Month ago  
Paladin wrote:
I was trying not to ask more questions but since this is the first time I've ever pumped up lifters, I've got to ask. Per the service manual I've immersed them in Kerosene. Of course it also says not to pump them too much, but i don't know how much is too much. I got a wooden dowel the same size as the pushrods and have been pumping on them by hand. At first they pushed down quite a bit, maybe 3/8" or so. I pumped them each maybe 10-12 times. Now they're at a point where they push down maybe 1/8". In comparison, I can't push my old lifters down at all. My question is, how much should I be able to pump the new ones when they're done? Is it safe to assume they should move a little bit to cushion the pushrods?

Not really any need to pump the lifters up until firm, they bleed down anyway every time you shut the engine off if the lifter ends up on a high spot on the cam when the engine stops turning, they pump up right away on starting. I normally submerge them in oil and pump them until I see no more air bubbles. How many times you pump them is not important. You'll never get the new ones as firm as the old ones because the ones that came out of the engine had oil pressure to them and when you removed them they still hold pressure by the ball and spring.

Here's a another technique that works well if you really want to prime them. Have a cup or small bowl of the oil you want to use. Find a piece of hose that has the same ID as the OD of the lifter, you only need a piece about 6-8" long. Slip the hose over top of the lifter, ensuring you don't push it onto the lifter too far as to cover up the side oil hole. Put the lifter in the oil so that it covers the side hole. Start your shop vac, and using your hand, create a seal from the vac hose to the hose on the lifter. When you see oil starting to come out the top of the lifter, it is primed.

Not matter what you do you're going to hear some clatter when you first start the bike until oil pressure gets through the system and into the lifter bodies.
 
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Last Edit: 2017/09/15 21:36 By ctkog.
 

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Re:Firing on one cylinder 1 Month ago  
Paladin wrote:
Got a question on the cams I bought too. They're the correct part number according to the parts charts. The rear camshaft (the one with the threaded end on it) has two gears mounted on it (one light colored and one dark colored)and they appear to have a different number of teeth on them. If you start at a point where the teeth of the two gears are lined up and as you follow them around they gradually start to not line up with each other. Eventually the black gear has teeth that are about halfway between the light gear teeth. Then of course as you follow it on around they gradually get to the point where they line up again. Is that right? (hope that makes sense, I don't think of any other way to describe it) The drawing in the service manual appears to have two gears on it but in the drawing they look like the teeth line up.

Good eye mate that's normal they're suppose to be like that.
 
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#1022280
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 1 Month ago  
Whew - that's good to hear! Thanks for both replies. Tomorrow is the big day when I try to do this so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I've read the service manual, and Mr Tidy's & Odo's tips so many times I'm going cross-eyed. Just hoping I don't mess something up.......
 
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 1 Month ago  
The two gears with the mismatched number of teeth were designed like that. They weren't machined correctly on a lot of the '99's, including mine, and caused a noise like a can of marbles. A twin cam like ours experiences backlash forces when the lifter is on the back side of the cam. Harley has a tensioner on the chain to stop the backlash noise. Yamaha came up with a better solution with the mismatched gears. They keep tension on the gears so the cams aren't constantly being forced back and forth as they rotate.

Some of you who still have a '99 might remember those times.
 
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My 99 Standard Test Mule
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#1022311
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 1 Month ago  
Ctkog wrote:
[b]

Good eye mate that's normal they're suppose to be like that.


Well, 10 1/2 hours of work and nothing to show for it. I did everything exactly per the service manual and took my time. Got it all back together and it won't hardly even turn over. On top of that, I have three different size groups of 4 bolts left over and I have no idea where they go. I've gone through all the bolts shown in the service manual and I've put what I think is the proper bolt in every spot. Obviously they go somewhere because they came out of the bike, but I only have one guess as to where they might go. Picture number 2 on page 5-26 has arrows that seem to indicate bolts however it doesn't say anything about bolts going there in the instructions, and especially doesn't say anything about what size bolts if indeed bolts are supposed to go there. With 6 in a head, that would be 12 bolts which is exactly what I have left over (although the ones I have left over are three different sizes). I've got to go back in and check valve clearances again, so maybe that will make a difference. I also discovered that the service manual shows the spark plug wires connected wrong. Page 5-29 is the page and it shows the view of the motor from the push rod side. It shows plug wires 1 & 2 where 3 & 4 should be and vice versa. Then it indicates the back of the motor where the front should be. I've attached a pic of that image. I'm not looking at it wrong somehow am I?
File Attachment:
File Name: RS_Spark_Plug_Wires.pdf
File Size: 20327
 
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 1 Month ago  
Paladin wrote:
[b] Well, 10 1/2 hours of work and nothing to show for it. I did everything exactly per the service manual and took my time. Got it all back together and it won't hardly even turn over. On top of that, I have three different size groups of 4 bolts left over and I have no idea where they go. I've gone through all the bolts shown in the service manual and I've put what I think is the proper bolt in every spot. Obviously they go somewhere because they came out of the bike, but I only have one guess as to where they might go. Picture number 2 on page 5-26 has arrows that seem to indicate bolts however it doesn't say anything about bolts going there in the instructions, and especially doesn't say anything about what size bolts if indeed bolts are supposed to go there. With 6 in a head, that would be 12 bolts which is exactly what I have left over (although the ones I have left over are three different sizes). I've got to go back in and check valve clearances again, so maybe that will make a difference. I also discovered that the service manual shows the spark plug wires connected wrong. Page 5-29 is the page and it shows the view of the motor from the push rod side. It shows plug wires 1 & 2 where 3 & 4 should be and vice versa. Then it indicates the back of the motor where the front should be. I've attached a pic of that image. I'm not looking at it wrong somehow am I?
File Attachment:
File Name: RS_Spark_Plug_Wires.pdf
File Size: 20327


EDIT: That diagram is INCORRECT. As you said it's reversed. It should be like below.

However if you ended up with that many extra bolts it would be a real risk IMO going forward. You don't want to do any engine damage. You're probably going to want to retrace your path backwards and find out what you've missed. Every bolt has a purpose on a motorcycle. Try posting a picture of the bolts you have left over...enough of us can probably identify them pretty well and tell you where they go.



FORWARD

#3 #4


#1 #2


REAR
 
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Last Edit: 2017/09/16 23:58 By ctkog.
 

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#1022314
Paladin (User)
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 1 Month ago  
Here are the bolts I had left over. As far as the ones I used, I tried to use the ones that were as close as possible to the sizes the manual/Mr Tidy's instructions specified for each location. Then like I said, I didn't put any in the "spacer" because the manual didn't show anything other than a picture and didn't specify bolts/sizes going there.
============================================

Sorry, The file size was apparently too large and I had to change it a couple times. So the pics are a couple posts down.
 
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Last Edit: 2017/09/17 01:36 By Paladin.
 
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