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TOPIC: Re:Firing on one cylinder
#1022347
BikerRon (User)
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 3 Months ago  
Ctkog wrote:



+1 cams determine as long as rear cyl is on top. 180 crank rotation from there would put the front cyl up and he don't want that.


Think about that for a minute.

Rotating the crank only 48° (or 312° the other way) would put #1 on TDC. Both pistons swing off a single pin and the cylinder spacing is 48° apart.

180° would put them both @, and near, BDC.
 
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Last Edit: 2017/09/17 20:29 By BikerRon.
 



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#1022350
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 3 Months ago  
BikerRon wrote:
Think about that for a minute.

Rotating the crank only 48° (or 312° the other way) would put #1 on TDC. Both pistons swing off a single pin and the cylinder spacing is 48° apart.

180° would put them both @, and near, BDC.




My bad, I agree. Thanks for clearing me up on that BikeRon.
 
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Last Edit: 2017/09/17 21:16 By ctkog.
 

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#1022373
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 3 Months ago  
Thanks everyone for the ideas and recommendations. With all your comments I think I just came across the answer as to why it won't start.

Let me see if I can provide info on what everyone has suggested. As far as the bolts, before I started working with them I laid them all out on my bench, grouped by sizes and matched them up with the numbers of bolts/sizes mentioned in the manual on page 5-14. However, it only mentions 4 different sizes there and I had a total of 8 or 9 different sized bolts as I recall having them laid out. The bolts I used for the rocker arms were shouldered bolts. I tried to use bolts by size, in the appropriate locations according to what the manual says. Everything seemed to match up except for the 12 shouldered ones I had left over. I did not put any bolts in the spacer since the manual didn't specify bolts there in that one dagram I posted earlier. According to the diagram on page 5-14 it looks like there's one 25mm bolt that goes in the spacer and 6 that go in the valve cover. And according to Mr Tidy's color coded diagram, 6- 25mm (yellow on Mr Tidy's diagram) bolts go in each valve cover. That being said, there were only 12 of that size bolts so there weren't any to have used in the spacer. By the time I got everything put together, I had used up all the sizes that appeared to go in their proper locations, did not put anything in the spacer, and had the 12 shouldered bolts left over. So by default, they should have been the ones that went in the spacers. But it doesn't make sense that they were different sizes. I'll take them all out and start from scratch next weekend though.

EUREKA! - As far as the pushrods are concerned, I followed what I thought the manual said, exhaust lifter/pushrods on the outside and intake lifter/pushrods on the inside. That's also the way I thought I took them out. In looking at the diagrams again though, I was thinking "A" was the front cylinder and B" the rear. Now that I re-read it I see that "A" is the rear and "B" is the front, so I have all 4 of the pushrods on the wrong lifters!!!! Apparently the inside lifters should be the exhausts and the outside should be intake according to the manual.
Question there: can I simply switch the pushrods at this point or am I going to have to do something with the cams/finding TDC, etc.?

As far as the dimples on the gears are concerned, I made sure the ones on the cams faced each other perfectly and the ones on the Drive and Driven gears matched perfectly. I didn't move anything while the cams were out so everything should be lined up exactly as it was before they were taken out. I never disconnected the decomp solenoid, just dropped it down out of the way and both of the decomp rods are installed in the proper positions and they move freely. By the way, I never had the spark plug wires hooked up backwards, I merely posted the diagram in the manual to show everyone it was wrong. I'm sure someone has noticed that before but I thought I'd go ahead and point it out anyway.

SO next weekend, I'll take the valve covers and spacers back off and start from scratch with all the bolts. I still have to figure out what goes in the spacer but at least now I know something goes there. I'll switch the pushrods (hopefully I don't have to do anything but that, but I will wait to get everyone's input).
Please advise on if I have to do anything other than switch the pushrods though.

I do have one other problem that's I'm going to have to think about. As part of doing this I took my crankcase drain plug out, drained the oil, and poured two quarts of oil directly in the opening for the lifter case to flush out any remnants of the bad lifter and cam. My magnetic drain plug was covered in metal filings and it took forever to get it clean. After that, I took my bike down off the lift and proceeded to change the oil in the reservoir. Here's where my problem comes in. I can't remember if I removed the reservoir drain plug and drained the oil before I added the new oil. (I had poured about 2 fresh quarts of oil directly into the crank case through the lifter case opening and was going to put the other 2 quarts in the reservoir.) I was tired and wanted to get it done and probably should have waited. I've racked my brain all day trying to remember draining the reservoir. I remember taking the lid off the filler so it would drain. I remember picking up my breaker bar and socket. But I cannot for the life of me remember actually draining the reservoir before I filled it with 2 qts of oil - which it did overflow at one point but I attributed that to pouring the oil in too fast.. So now the only thing I can think to do is waste the entire gallon of Rotella by draining it all. And then buying a new gallon and starting from scratch.
 
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Last Edit: 2017/09/17 23:51 By Paladin.
 
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#1022380
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 3 Months ago  
Sounds like you are on the right track for solving your issue. As far as the oil in the tank just drain it into a clean drain pan,if you forgot to drain the old oil you will know when you see the quantity and condition of the oil that comes out. After draining it if it has old oil in it you should at least flush some cheap oil or fluid thru the tank to remove any contaminants from the tank then put in new oil. Also drain the engine crank case oil and if it has any signs of old oil in it I would change it, if it isn't contaminated with old oil measure it so you know how much oil you are putting back into the bike and install the rest of the 4 qts.
 
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#1022394
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 3 Months ago  
davej wrote:
Sounds like you are on the right track for solving your issue. As far as the oil in the tank just drain it into a clean drain pan,if you forgot to drain the old oil you will know when you see the quantity and condition of the oil that comes out. After draining it if it has old oil in it you should at least flush some cheap oil or fluid thru the tank to remove any contaminants from the tank then put in new oil. Also drain the engine crank case oil and if it has any signs of old oil in it I would change it, if it isn't contaminated with old oil measure it so you know how much oil you are putting back into the bike and install the rest of the 4 qts.


Good idea on the old oil. I really couldn't afford to do any of this and the thought of having to throw away a full gallon of brand new Rotella was really bothering me. I still may have to, but I just need to focus on having flushed out contaminants even more thoroughly, if I have to do that. I also discovered after the fact that I had used Rotella T5 15w40 and whoever it was that mentioned using that oil had originally posted T4 15w40. Don't know that it makes any difference, hope not.

My big question now though is: am I going to have to reset anything with the cams or can I just switch the pushrods and everything will be ok? I've tried to think the process through, but my brain just doestn' work like it used to. I'm thinking that as long as the cams were set right in the beginning, they were simply opening the wrong valves at the wrong times and changing the pushrods won't affect timing, it just affects what valves are opening.
 
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#1022396
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 3 Months ago  
Your thinking is correct as long as the cams were installed correctly nothing further will need to be changed with them. If the push rods were installed incorrectly changing them to the correct position is all that is needed.
 
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#1022398
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 3 Months ago  
davej wrote:
Your thinking is correct as long as the cams were installed correctly nothing further will need to be changed with them. If the push rods were installed incorrectly changing them to the correct position is all that is needed.

Excellent, thanks!
 
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 2 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
Just wanted to let everyone know I'm back up and running again and say thanks for the help!!!!!! I started off the day by draining all the oil and it turned out I had emptied the oil tank last week. The oil I drained out came to almost exactly 4 qts and while it was a little dirty (after all it did mix with the half quart or so that stays in the oil pan when you drain the engine) I went ahead and re-used it. I also figured out where all the bolts went so I'm all good there too. Finished it up and went for a ride around the block - it did ok. After it cooled back down I went for a little longer ride (about 15 miles) and it still did fine. Tomorrow I'll clean it up and probably go for about a 30 mile ride. If it does ok then, I guess I'm back in business!!! Thanks again to everyone for their help and I hope I can help someone one day as much as you guys have helped me!!!!
 
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 2 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
What problem did you find??? Did you install the pushrods wrong?
 
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Re:Firing on one cylinder 2 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
Yeah, I knew that's what I had done going in. I misread the diagram in the service manual and had the intakes on the exhaust lifters and vice versa. Changed them over and it worked fine.
 
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