SKWEARpeg wrote:
Who determines whats "fair"?
Whats the maximum amount of taxes, that any person should have to pay? Who is going to determine when we have enough social programs?
How much is the right amount of money to spend on a social program, before you decide its a waste of "other people's money" or by your definition, "OUR money as a country". How much do we have to spend, before we can call it a failure, and pull the plug.

Is it fair, that almost half the country already gets a free ride? Is it fair, that individuals..

....real people with families names and faces...who make good choices, sacrifice and take risk, work their butts off to get ahead and stay there, live within their means, stay out of trouble, strive to better themselves, and be responsible for themselves......

..have somebody comes along and say "your not giving enough", "you have more then that other guy, so we're going to take it from you, and give it to them, because we think that's fair...and they think like we do, and you don't"?

Agree. This is my biggest problem with the Utopian Left. They can never qualify how much money or how long of a time or the expected outcome. Their programs are all failures and go on forever with more and more cash -- taken from the rest of us -- being dumped into them.

I got a laugh out of the Administration's change in terminology.
You know, when one thing becomes a real problem just start calling it something else.
The "Individual Mandate" has now become the "Personal Responsibility Clause"!

BuffaloRider wrote:
I got a laugh out of the Administration's change in terminology.
You know, when one thing becomes a real problem just start calling it something else.
The "Individual Mandate" has now become the "Personal Responsibility Clause"!

Marxists are wordsmiths.

Progressive ... pro choice ... social justice ... all nice language for over-regulation, murder in the womb and taking your money to give to someone else.

There are many others, but those are ones that readily come to mind.

Another thought on "OUR countries money"

National defense, and interstate commerce, are the two main things that the federal government is responsible for per the Constitution. This is why everybody always tries to slide socialist legislation into Commerce....ie Obamacare.

Both of these things, are MY money working for ME. Granted, the country as a whole benefits from these two things, but it is seen as necessary for MY(or the individual states. Thereby, an extension of me, in the state I live in) survival.
The Constitution was not written from the standpoint of we're all going to collect money from those with it, to make a paradise for those who don't contribute, and have none of their own.
It was, and is, about protecting the individuals ability to better 'himself', and make a better life for 'himself(or herself)' with 'his' effort, and 'his' ability. This is why immigrants flocked to this country from the rest of the world. Here, they could build a life for themselves, without somebody else taking it from them.
The good folks at Jamestown tried the "Great Collective" mindset, until they literally, and almost completely, starved to death. Starving to death seems to be a hallmark of these ideals. As Stalin, and mao proved, if you starve enough people to death, you don't have to feed them.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2120669/posts
The idea of a greater world through pulling together, and the diminished and discouraged value of the individuals ability to improve himself for his own gain, has been sold repeatedly, and has been a miserable failure each time.
The remarkable and vast difference in the world over the last 150 years, is not because of Islam, atheism, socialism and communist ideology breathing life into economies around the world. It is, Capitalism, and the core values found within Judeo/Christian beliefs, that have made a better world.

SKWEARpeg wrote:
Another thought on "OUR countries money"

National defense, and interstate commerce, are the two main things that the federal government is responsible for per the Constitution. This is why everybody always tries to slide socialist legislation into Commerce....ie Obamacare.

Both of these things, are MY money working for ME. Granted, the country as a whole benefits from these two things, but it is seen as necessary for MY(or the individual states. Thereby, an extension of me, in the state I live in) survival.
The Constitution was not written from the standpoint of we're all going to collect money from those with it, to make a paradise for those who don't contribute, and have none of their own.
It was, and is, about protecting the individuals ability to better 'himself', and make a better life for 'himself(or herself)' with 'his' effort, and 'his' ability. This is why immigrants flocked to this country from the rest of the world. Here, they could build a life for themselves, without somebody else taking it from them.
The good folks at Jamestown tried the "Great Collective" mindset, until they literally, and almost completely, starved to death. Starving to death seems to be a hallmark of these ideals. As Stalin, and mao proved, if you starve enough people to death, you don't have to feed them.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2120669/posts
The idea of a greater world through pulling together, and the diminished and discouraged value of the individuals ability to improve himself for his own gain, has been sold repeatedly, and has been a miserable failure each time.
The remarkable and vast difference in the world over the last 150 years, is not because of Islam, atheism, socialism and communist ideology breathing life into economies around the world. It is, Capitalism, and the core values found within Judeo/Christian beliefs, that have made a better world.
well said...someone should explain this to our beloved "president"...

SKWEARpeg wrote:
Another thought on "OUR countries money"

National defense, and interstate commerce, are the two main things that the federal government is responsible for per the Constitution. This is why everybody always tries to slide socialist legislation into Commerce....ie Obamacare.

Both of these things, are MY money working for ME. Granted, the country as a whole benefits from these two things, but it is seen as necessary for MY(or the individual states. Thereby, an extension of me, in the state I live in) survival.
The Constitution was not written from the standpoint of we're all going to collect money from those with it, to make a paradise for those who don't contribute, and have none of their own.
It was, and is, about protecting the individuals ability to better 'himself', and make a better life for 'himself(or herself)' with 'his' effort, and 'his' ability. This is why immigrants flocked to this country from the rest of the world. Here, they could build a life for themselves, without somebody else taking it from them.
The good folks at Jamestown tried the "Great Collective" mindset, until they literally, and almost completely, starved to death. Starving to death seems to be a hallmark of these ideals. As Stalin, and mao proved, if you starve enough people to death, you don't have to feed them.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2120669/posts
The idea of a greater world through pulling together, and the diminished and discouraged value of the individuals ability to improve himself for his own gain, has been sold repeatedly, and has been a miserable failure each time.
The remarkable and vast difference in the world over the last 150 years, is not because of Islam, atheism, socialism and communist ideology breathing life into economies around the world. It is, Capitalism, and the core values found within Judeo/Christian beliefs, that have made a better world.

Awesome! That's more like it! SKWEARpeg, I will respond when I have more time. Trying to get out of town with the wife and kids for the weekend.
Have a great weekend!

Slvrknght wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm really a Jeffersonian at heart. I would love to live in the type of Republic that Jefferson envisioned for this country.

I just wish the Republicans would get back to their roots and stop with all this religious bullshit, otherwise their opinions matter even less, in my opinion. They should be the ones championing the right for everyone to live the way they want to (gay, straight, whatever), and not deny people the right to get the health care they need/want. The problem is that so much of the garbage the right is spewing isn't what the founders envisioned, either.

AMEN! (Pun Intended). The fake christian right makes be sick. They claim to be pro-life by being anti abortion yet have no problem bombing the brown people overseas for oil. The last time I looked, there was no asterisk or footnote on "Thou Shall not Kill".

As a Libertarian I agree that the GOP makes an error of listening so closely to the Christian Evangelical movement. While I do hold some very conservative fiscal views I accept that personal liberty does give people the right to engage in practices that I may or may not find personally objectionable.
But I also feel that personal freedom protects my right to reasonably express my rejection to those practices and to not be a part of them.

If we are bombing brown people and taking their oil why does it cost me $20 to fill my R* and I need a mortgage to fill my truck

While the current modern translation of the Judea-Christian Ten Commandments says "Thou shalt not kill" the earliest Greek and Aramaic wordings in the Jewish texts and the early Christian books express the Commandment "Thou shalt not murder". There is a real difference between the two.

scotth1116 wrote:
They claim to be pro-life by being anti abortion yet have no problem bombing the brown people overseas for oil. The last time I looked, there was no asterisk or footnote on "Thou Shall not Kill".

I don't know that I've ever read or heard any one person, much less the entire Christian Right, advocate killing people for oil. I know the Liberal Left likes to make this claim -- just like their references to conservatives in favor of slavery and Jim Crow.

I'd be interested in reading any documentation you have regarding people of faith wanting to kill others for oil.

BuffaloRider wrote:
As a Libertarian I agree that the GOP makes an error of listening so closely to the Christian Evangelical movement.

I don't know that the current GOP or its leadership listens to anyone other than establishment Republicans who want to manage the decay of what our country has become.

I have great personal and philosophical disdain for the current cowardly GOP leadership.